Re: Whose poem this is I think I know
I think Pound and Hayward were very different "cats" in TSE's menagerie, partly because they emerged in quite different phases of TSE's life. Pound was a true poet, an inspired, far-seeing collaborator who knew dross from gold,  while Hayward played the (bullying?) pedant. As one can see from TSE's deference to the superior scholarship of Mario Praz (mid-1920s) concerning points about Dante and his circle in the Clark Lectures, TSE felt vulnerable in matters of in-depth scholarship, and Hayward (in the latter 1930s and early 1940s) probably sensed that when advising TSE on the 4Q.  --  Jim
James Loucks, Ph.D.
Ohio State University-Newark
1179 University Dr.
Newark, OH 43055-1797
[log in to unmask]
fax 740.366.5047

From: T. S. Eliot Discussion forum. on behalf of Carrol Cox
Sent: Mon 12-Sep-05 2:45 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Whose poem this is I think I know

> Marcia Karp wrote:
>     Like you, I believe there is a difference between wrote the poem and who didn't.  I've yet to understand why it seems as if people discuss Eliot as if he is strange in being a poet who showed his work to other poets.

It's not "Eliot in general" that is the focus. It is one particular
poem, which underwent radical surgery, resulting in a poem which, thanks
to Eliot accepting that surgery, is a different poem, not just a more
polished or precise poem, from the original.

I doubt that anyone would say the same about 4Q even if we had available
all the "general criticism and specific suggestions" for which Eliot
acknowledges "a particular debt to Mr. John Hayward." Probably most
poets do look for and accept such help. Does the help Pound gave to TWL
go beyond that? Some of us believe so.