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Ah yes, Ogden, still there as my advisor.  A man famous for those little
talks--still going on.  My own experience with him was different and
odd.  I was already married when I arrived, and that seemed to remove me
partly from "the talk" reported to me by so many.  But semester after
semester I went in for advising and he could just never remember my
name.  I always had to remind him who I was, why I was there, what I was
studying.  Just always forgot as soon as I was gone.

Then a weird thing happened:  we somehow got in a discussion of Locke's
_Principles of Human Understanding_ and he quizzed me.  He seemed to
discover that I had not only read them but understood them.  (Don't ask
now.)  After that he always remembered my name and my dissertation topic
and cheerily greeted me in the halls.  I seem to have moved out of the
realm of the woman.  On the other hand, a friend of mine (now president
of a major university) was one he took seriously until she got married
while a student.  After that, he had nothing good to say to her.

I don't interpret this; it just shows the strange climate of the time.  
Nancy

>>> [log in to unmask] 02/26/05 11:58 PM >>>
Nancy Gish wrote:
> 
> Even when I went to graduate school, I was just apparently too dumb to
> notice that I was not there in the faculty.  In 13 years of college, I
> had one (1) woman professor.  She was in the school of education.  And
> it was not because I avoided them.  They were not there.  I'm sure
> Carrol will remember even a little earlier that there were simply no
> women at all in the English Department at Michigan though 50% of grad
> students were women.

Indeed. A woman on another list with a Michigan Ph.D. (she was there
1966-1971)informed me in an off-list post:

"My partiuclar bete noir was H.V.S. Ogden, who in my time was director
of grad studies, and who 'had a little talk' with each woman coming
along the system, urging us to quit the program lest we become like all
the other 'angry, bitter' women academics. He told me all the men in the
program were 'faggots or 4-Fs.' [ironically true of my husband-to-be
also an English grad student - although I didn't know the 1st part at
the time]. He suggested I get a job in the law library and 'catch a nice
young lawyer.'  There were, at the time, a grand total of 3 women on the
English grad faculty, none tenured, all scared."

Another tale from the past. The last time I saw my orthopedic surgeon I
asked her about what it had been like when she was a resident in 
surgery, since I had picked up over the years that orthopedic surgery
was a particularly macho field. She said the first year had been o.k. --
the other residents just thought she was "cute." But the second and
third years, when she was in a position to give orders, things got very
rough indeed! Her medical training had preceded the impact (such as it
is) of the women's movement on medicine, but she said that even to this
day the vast majority of female orthopedic surgeons specialize in either
pediatric surgery or in hand surgery. (She replaced a hip for me when I
slipped on the ice in January 1990; she repaired a wrist for me when I
slipped on the ice three years ago -- and got up with my wrist in a
backwards right angle to my arm.)

Incidentally, when I was at Michigan there were _no_ women on English
faculty, and far fewer women grad students than Nancy reports.

Carrol