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I don't know a lot about Islam, but that sounds like a fair call -- Mohammed would seem to be the center. Right? Is this controversial? >>> [log in to unmask] 11/04/04 01:16PM >>> 'The center of true Christianity is Christ, not a set of principles.' You could also then justify at a similar conclusion that Mohammed is the center of Islam, which is thought to be the major problem in the present issues of Islam by many ! --- William Gray <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Yes, you're right, George, there is an assumption > being made here by Christians -- that IF > Christianity is the true accounting of reality, then > it would best explain the origin of principles such > as these. Contrary opinion would assert that if > Christianity is only A belief, then why are so many > other religious principles similar? How dare > Christianity claim to be the origin? It's the > difference between mere similitude and a > cause-effect relationship. You either have to > believe in an origin of these things, or instead > believe that man has come up with everything > meaningful that exists (for how could chance create > meaning?). > > The death penalty in origin (according to the Bible) > is a Christian thing (Genesis 9:6). > I have no idea where the right to bear arms comes > from -- that always seemed to me an element of early > America that was reacting against Britain (just like > the third amendment -- why else would this be a > priority?). Personally, I've never given significant > support to the right to bear arms, but hey -- it's > in the Bill of Rights. Not really a Christian idea. > I'm not sure that people call it a Christian > principle, and if they do, I guess you're right to > call them on the carpet for it. > Homosexuality -- a well-documented no-no in the > Bible (I Corinthians 6:9, Romans 1:26-27, among > other passages). According to Christianity, if God > created people as well as marriage, he gets to > decide proper bounds for sexuality. Again, it's > those who see Christianity as only a choice among > many belief systems who see this as a transgression > against freedom. I guess it all depends on how you > define freedom. Perhaps Thomas Carlyle was right > (freedom is being shown the right path and, if > necessary, being made to walk in it). In almost > every other avenue of life, it makes sense to us > that we should look out for others to make sure they > are operating within appropriate bounds -- for their > good, not ours (like crisis counseling, drug rehab, > mental institutions). > As I explained to a fellow student at Oxford a few > years ago, as annoying as it was to her that people > would stop her on the street and ask if she were > going to heaven or hell, doesn't it make sense that > if someone truly believed you were going to hell, it > would be a loving thing for them to let you know > about it? In other words, there is a difference > between one who is a true believer in Christianity > and someone who knows about Christianity -- the > difference is in the way they look at the world and > at the tenets of Christianity itself. Worldviews are > like a set of glasses. And it's the worst when a > person thinks he's not wearing any glasses, that he > has no worldview. > And yes, Ken is right about Tillich. The center of > true Christianity is Christ, not a set of > principles. > > Best wishes, > Will > > >>> [log in to unmask] 11/04/04 09:42AM >>> > On Thu, Nov 04, 2004 at 09:12:37AM -0500, William > Gray wrote: > > before. Perhaps you and I would differ in how we > react to that. I find it comforting to a degree, > since > > this nation was founded on Christian principles -- > however, since Christians will always differ a > little > > I take the view, and I think it's supported by the > often rabid disagreements between different factions > of > Christianity, that there is no such thing as a > "Christian principle". What many Christians > consider to be > principles unique to their faith are in fact general > humanitarian principles shared by many faiths. And > as > with all such 'principles', they are *merely* > principles and should not be taken as matters of > dogma. To > say nothing of the fact that "Christian principles" > regularly seem to have very little to do with > anything > that's written in the Bible except perhaps in the > most tangential manner, and to have been > cherrypicked > according to people's prejudices. So it is that we > have a nation founded upon "Christian" values that > has > a death penalty and a right to bear arms but that > gets riled up about homosexuals. > > --George > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com