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Mohammed and Jesus Christ, who is considered the next to the last prophet
and second only to Mohammed in importance.


on 11/4/04 11:05 AM, William Gray at [log in to unmask] wrote:

> I don't know a lot about Islam, but that sounds like a fair call -- Mohammed
> would seem to be the center. Right? Is this controversial?
>
>>>> [log in to unmask] 11/04/04 01:16PM >>>
> 'The center of true Christianity is Christ, not a set
> of principles.'
>
> You could also then justify at a similar conclusion
> that Mohammed is the center of Islam, which is thought
> to be the major problem in the present issues of Islam
> by many !
>
>
> --- William Gray <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Yes, you're right, George, there is an assumption
>> being made here by Christians -- that IF
>> Christianity is the true accounting of reality, then
>> it would best explain the origin of principles such
>> as these. Contrary opinion would assert that if
>> Christianity is only A belief, then why are so many
>> other religious principles similar? How dare
>> Christianity claim to be the origin? It's the
>> difference between mere similitude and a
>> cause-effect relationship. You either have to
>> believe in an origin of these things, or instead
>> believe that man has come up with everything
>> meaningful that exists (for how could chance create
>> meaning?).
>>
>> The death penalty in origin (according to the Bible)
>> is a Christian thing (Genesis 9:6).
>> I have no idea where the right to bear arms comes
>> from -- that always seemed to me an element of early
>> America that was reacting against Britain (just like
>> the third amendment -- why else would this be a
>> priority?). Personally, I've never given significant
>> support to the right to bear arms, but hey -- it's
>> in the Bill of Rights. Not really a Christian idea.
>> I'm not sure that people call it a Christian
>> principle, and if they do, I guess you're right to
>> call them on the carpet for it.
>> Homosexuality -- a well-documented no-no in the
>> Bible (I Corinthians 6:9, Romans 1:26-27, among
>> other passages). According to Christianity, if God
>> created people as well as marriage, he gets to
>> decide proper bounds for sexuality. Again, it's
>> those who see Christianity as only a choice among
>> many belief systems who see this as a transgression
>> against freedom. I guess it all depends on how you
>> define freedom. Perhaps Thomas Carlyle was right
>> (freedom is being shown the right path and, if
>> necessary, being made to walk in it). In almost
>> every other avenue of life, it makes sense to us
>> that we should look out for others to make sure they
>> are operating within appropriate bounds -- for their
>> good, not ours (like crisis counseling, drug rehab,
>> mental institutions).
>> As I explained to a fellow student at Oxford a few
>> years ago, as annoying as it was to her that people
>> would stop her on the street and ask if she were
>> going to heaven or hell, doesn't it make sense that
>> if someone truly believed you were going to hell, it
>> would be a loving thing for them to let you know
>> about it? In other words, there is a difference
>> between one who is a true believer in Christianity
>> and someone who knows about Christianity -- the
>> difference is in the way they look at the world and
>> at the tenets of Christianity itself. Worldviews are
>> like a set of glasses. And it's the worst when a
>> person thinks he's not wearing any glasses, that he
>> has no worldview.
>> And yes, Ken is right about Tillich. The center of
>> true Christianity is Christ, not a set of
>> principles.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Will
>>
>>>>> [log in to unmask] 11/04/04 09:42AM >>>
>> On Thu, Nov 04, 2004 at 09:12:37AM -0500, William
>> Gray wrote:
>>> before. Perhaps you and I would differ in how we
>> react to that. I find it comforting to a degree,
>> since
>>> this nation was founded on Christian principles --
>> however, since Christians will always differ a
>> little
>>
>> I take the view, and I think it's supported by the
>> often rabid disagreements between different factions
>> of
>> Christianity, that there is no such thing as a
>> "Christian principle".  What many Christians
>> consider to be
>> principles unique to their faith are in fact general
>> humanitarian principles shared by many faiths.  And
>> as
>> with all such 'principles', they are *merely*
>> principles and should not be taken as matters of
>> dogma.  To
>> say nothing of the fact that "Christian principles"
>> regularly seem to have very little to do with
>> anything
>> that's written in the Bible except perhaps in the
>> most tangential manner, and to have been
>> cherrypicked
>> according to people's prejudices.  So it is that we
>> have a nation founded upon "Christian" values that
>> has
>> a death penalty and a right to bear arms but that
>> gets riled up about homosexuals.
>>
>> --George
>>
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