I suspect, Marcia, you would make a good apologist for
how  a Catholic should read the Bible. One of the better things,
enjoyed all around by Catholics, to have come out of Vatican II,
is the business of learning to read the Bible the way the Hebrews
have done. To be fair, Pope Pius XII deserves credit for taking
the hand-cuffs off Catholic scripture scholars so they could study
scripture in terms of its textual development, and teaching purposes.
The haggadic midrash were not, as I (in a very freshman manner)
understand it, ever meant to be read literally.


-----Original Message-----
From: Marcia Karp
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: 2004-Nov-05 5:41 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Supersession?

Dear Will,
    I am aware of what you say, but I meant to point out that both you
and George, by turning the Hebrew Bible into a Christian one as if that
were its origin), were exhibiting a species of supersession: the
Christian reading of the Hebrew Bible replaces that of the Jews'.  To
ignore Judaism and claim its sacred document as Christian, rather than
to acknowledge the relationship of Christianity to Judaism, is not the
same as typological claims.  The latter occurs within the thought of the
religion; the former is in the realm of a world where accuracy, at a
minimum, and a willingly to acknowledge others when pertinent, one would
hope, are necessary if the tenants of the religion aren't to trump
secular conversation.
    It may be you and George see the Hebrew Bible as Christian, I want
to make clear how I read the messages I cited.


William Gray wrote:

>I'm sure you're aware that Christians sees an unbroken line from Adam &
Eve to Israel to the "New Testament Church", right? So, according to
Jewish people, it may be the "Hebrew Bible," but to Christians, the Old
and New Testaments together are considered the Christian Bible. However,
I don't know that I've ever heard anyone call it that. Usually it's just
"the Bible."
>George Carless wrote:
>>Christianity in particular doesn't really tend to say that, though--it
>>us with a human Christ, and a God that is not really all that
>>non-human, either.
>>In fact the God of the OT is quite petty, angry, jealous and
>Will Gray:
>>The death penalty in origin (according to the Bible) is a Christian
>>thing (Genesis 9:6).
>Twice in the conversation of the past few hours, the Hebrew Bible has
>been called Christian.  Puzzling.