A couple of things.

1. It does seem as though a lot of the posting of directions has been
left to Charlene.

2. We do come up with names for spots that aren't shown on various
maps, and we refer to landmarks that might no longer exist.

3. One of the great things about the web is that pages can be easily
updated - books can't.

OK, that's 3 things.

I've been one of the offenders in asking people to repost directions,
usually because the original got lost in the hundreds of posts in my
inbox or because it was accidently deleted.

Maybe people who manage websites for their local birding groups (SLAS
and WGNSS for Saint Louis) wouldn't find it to be such a chore to
include directions if they would invite people to copy the site's
webmaster when directions are posted on mobirds.  Coding is trivial.

Sherry McCowan
Saint Louis, Missouri

On Sep 26, 2004, at 7:38 PM, Charlene and Jim Malone wrote:

> Since this msg (message) has my name plastered in the front and sent
> to the
> list I will reply in kind:
> With all due respect,  I have mentioned that the "Hazlet Pavilion" is
> labeled the Olympic Shelter in a past post, but I have REPEATED info
> about
> the Carlyle sightings so often, I don't know when & what listserve.
> If there were any questions or uncertainties about directions, a simple
> phone call/e-mail to me directly could have rectified that issue.
> To avoid re-issuing directions over and over and over and over and
> over and
> over, it would also help if the birding co-ordinates of the various
> spots
> could be corrected on the WGNSS (Webster Groves Nature Study Society)
> website, but it is my understanding that is not happening any time soon
> (supposedly Mapblast's problems??)
> Maybe written directions for all the various birding locations on the
> SLAS's
> (St. Louis Audubon Society) and/or WGNSS's website?? I know it's a
> pretty
> kooky suggestion, but I don't see that happening any time soon because:
> 1) no one wants to invest in all the time it would take. Besides, why
> to do
> this when there is a book one can purchase for this info.
> 2) Why do it, when "someone else" will do it via Mobirds for free.
> In the past when others have needed directions to various spots
> in MO, it was suggested that those people making the inquiries should
> consult the book, "A Guide to Birding in Missouri" by the Audubon
> Society of
> MO, the MDC (MO Department of Conservation) Atlas, "Missouri's
> Conservation
> Atlas: A guide to Exploring your  Conservation Lands" or other free
> maps
> distributed by MDC.
> For those that may not have gotten the information in past posts, from
> now
> on, I HIGHLY recommend that if anyone wishes to find directions to
> birding spots in the St. Louis area to consult one of the following
> books:
> - "Birds of the St. Louis Area:Where and When to find them" By Paul
> Bauer,
> Connie Alwood, Randy Korotev, *Anderson and *Van Benthuysen.
> *deceased. OR
> BETTER YET, please contact the the living authors directly.
> Info on purchasing this book can be obtained on the WGNSS website >
> - For spots in IL, including CARLYLE LAKE, please purchase the"Birds of
> Illinois" by Sheryl DeVore. It can be purchased on or
> at the
> ABA (American Birding Association) on-line store.
> With everyone buying these books there should be NO more problems in
> finding
> birds seen in the St. Louis area.
> WOOHOO! I just suddenly discovered a lot more free time........where's
> that
> next zootie? :-)
> 'Nuff said.
> Charlene Malone
> St. Louis co.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Edge Wade" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 5:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Carlyle Lake
>> Charlene, et al:
>> With all due respect (and to give this perspective, I did not see any
>> jaeger the day I was there--but I did spend lots of time winding
>> around
>> Hazlet with a map in my hand).
>> Having a map is of absolutely no use if the directions on Mobirds
>> call a
>> place by a name that is not on any map and is not known by any park
>> personnel.
>> Specifically, "Hazlet Pavilion" is local birder parlance.  There is no
>> such place except in St. Louis area birderese.  The place is
>> officially
>> "Olympic Shelter."  But even knowing that is of no help if the map
>> just
>> shows a symbol for a shelter (there are several).  It might help to
>> indicate in directions that this is the shelter closest to the
>> Sailboat
>> Club.
>> I mean this not as criticism (I'm calmer now), but as a constructive
>> suggestion to reduce the angst when searching for a megabird.
>> Jaegerless in IL,
>> Edge Wade
>> Columbia, MO
>> [log in to unmask]
>> On Friday, September 24, 2004, at 06:38 PM, Charlene and Jim Malone
>> wrote:
>>> The Maps aren't very helpful on the website, BUT
>>> one can
>>> "kinda'" get an idea where the major stuff is. Most if not all the
>>> maps
>>> are
>>> produced by the Corp (except the specific maps for Hazlet, then that
>>> is
>>> IL
>>> DNR).
>>> I have heard they have been facing more and more cut backs, so the
>>> quality
>>> of the maps may suffer.
>>> The BEST map for the area is the "Carlyle Lake Hunting and Fishing
>>> Guide"
>>> (grayish map, small when folded down, pencil sketch of a dead tree
>>> with
>>> ducks landing on the front of the map)
>>> It has many if not all the places mentioned by birders.
>>> Since it is a Army Corp of Engineers produced map, a BETTER place to
>>> get
>>> this map is the COE Administration building NEXT to the Visitor's
>>> Center (I
>>> was originally directing people to go to the Hazlet State Park Admin
>>> building and they don't always have these maps) The Corp Admin
>>> Building
>>> is
>>> open during the week, think from 8 AM to 4 P, M-F..
>>> The Visitor's Center is open Sat & Sun, think 10 AM to 6 PM, but
>>> don't
>>> know what kind of maps they have.
>>> More detailed directions to birding spots at Carlyle and surrounding
>>> areas,
>>> including a map, is in the St. Louis area birding book by Alwood,
>>> Bauer,
>>> Korotev, Anderson and
>>> Van Benthuysen.
>>> See to find out hoe to obtain a copy of the book.
>>> Also another good book for all of IL, not just Carlyle, is the book
>>> by
>>> Sheryl DeVore, "Birds of Illinois".
>>> Think  or the ABA on-line store would still sell this
>>> book .
>>> Those living on the East side of MO that venture into IL to bird
>>> could
>>> find
>>> this a good purchase to make.
>>> The fellow you are referring to is Bill RUDDEN.
>>> A long time super birder than comes out ever so often when the
>>> zooties
>>> are
>>> too good to resist. He has several  mentions in the record books of
>>> both IL
>>> and MO.
>>> Guess yesterday morning was the time to go to see the birds there,
>>> because
>>> the
>>> late afternoon was not good at all due to the heat distortion. Oh
>>> well.
>>> Glad others had a good day at Carlyle. :-)
>>> Everyone have a good weekend wherever you may be.
>>> Charlene Malone
>>> St. Louis co.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Anne Downing" <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 12:06 PM
>>> Subject: Carlyle Lake
>>> We had great luck at Carlyle Lake Wed and Thurs.  Best luck was
>>> running
>>> into
>>> a birder from St. Louis (Bill Runnells-- sp?) who first pointed out
>>> the 2
>>> Sanderling to me--then later when he showed up  at picnic area next
>>> to
>>> Pavillion he pointed out the jaeger species. Picked up 7 species for
>>> Il
>>> list
>>> and 1 or 2 lifers.
>>> Monks parakeet at the elevator  Wed aft. 4:30  1
>>> West end of dam: 11 AM ish
>>> Caspian, Common, Black, Forsters terns
>>> Bonapartes gull
>>> 2 Sanderling
>>> East side from overlook  7-9 AM
>>> Sabines  gull  immature flyover
>>> 2 red-Necked Phalaropes in water
>>> Hazlett Park area picnic park next to pavillion or shelter after 12
>>> PM
>>> Bill spotted the jaeger accross  on the east side of lake--jaeger
>>> brought up
>>> a long line of gulls--finally pursued one --got his fish ate it and
>>> rested
>>> on water  From this activity Bill felt probability was good for
>>> Parasitic
>>> and not the Long-tailed.  Also thought long-tailed was not as
>>> aggressive and
>>> usually was found in pairs.  Not a slam-dunk but pretty good.
>>> Note on Carlyle:  very confusing--maps are not tuned into birders
>>> needs .
>>> Distances need to be noted-specific instructions to areas should be
>>> uniform.
>>> Locals were wonderful--had much help from them-3 even offered to lead
>>> me to
>>> the sites!  They certainly know now that birders are in the area!
>>> Anne Downing
>>> Edina
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