Nancy Gish - Women's Studies wrote:
> [clip]

> But the question is what should be done to  prevent that.  An
> argument was made and can still be made that inspections worked
> and were working and that is why his "program" was not producing.
>  Why are we, then, not invading North Korea?

This is true as far as it goes, but not quite acceptable. What right
does any nation have to dictate the internal affairs (including weapons
program) of any other sovereign nation? There is a certain hubris in the
U.S. state's pretensions to dictate to the rest of the world. And as to
nuclear weapons, the only nation to actually use such a weapon, as well
as the only nation to refuse, even nominally, to renounce first use of
such weapons, is the United States.


P.S. I initiated the first part of the subject line, intending to
broaden the scope of posts for the Eliot discussion list. I'm not sure,
however, that most recent posts fall even under my quite flexible
criteria of "relevance," of what is and is not "off" or "on" topic. :-)

P.S. 2. Gunnar quotes Kipling, relevantly, but I think even more focused
on the present situation is another poem of Kiplings, written over a
century ago, published in the United States, and intended to urge and
support the policies which the war criminals William McKinley, Theodore
Roosevelt, and William Howard Taft subsequently followed in the

The White Man's Burden
By Rudyard Kipling

Take up the White Man's burden--
     Send forth the best ye breed--
Go, bind your sons to exile
     To serve your captives' need;
To wait, in heavy harness,
     On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught sullen peoples,
     Half devil and half child.

Take up the White Man's burden--
     In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
     And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
     An hundred times made plain,
To seek another's profit
     And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden--
     The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine,
     And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
     (The end for others sought)
Watch sloth and heathen folly
     Bring all your hope to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden--
     No iron rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper--
     The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
     The roads ye shall not tread,
Go, make them with your living
     And mark them with your dead.

Take up the White Man's burden,
     And reap his old reward--
The blame of those ye better
     The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of hosts ye humour
     (Ah, slowly!) toward the light:--
"Why brought ye us from bondage,
     Our loved Egyptian night?"

Take up the White Man's burden--
     Ye dare not stoop to less--
Nor call too loud on Freedom
     To cloak your weariness.
By all ye will or whisper,
     By all ye leave or do,
The silent sullen peoples
     Shall weigh your God and you.

Take up the White Man's burden!
     Have done with childish days--
The lightly-proffered laurel,
     The easy ungrudged praise:
Comes now, to search your manhood
     Through all the thankless years,
Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom,
     The judgment of your peers.

McClure's Magazine 12 (Feb. 1899).

I suggest two additional texts from the past, the remarks of a famous
Marine officer who died in 1940, Major General Smedley Butler (See URL
below), and Mark Twain's, "To the Person Sitting in Darkness," which was
inspired by the war Kipling flacked for.

Smedley Darlington Butler
Major General - United States Marine Corps [Retired]
Born West Chester, Pa., July 30, 1881
Awarded two congressional medals of honor, for capture of Vera Cruz,
Mexico, 1914,
and for capture of Ft. Riviere, Haiti, 1917
Distinguished service medal, 1919
Retired Oct. 1, 1931
Republican Candidate for Senate, 1932
Died at Naval Hospital, Philadelphia, June 21, 1940

See also

(I didn't check the home page of the last, but it looks rather