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0100,0100,0100My God Carrol, did you think I wrote the line about Korea as a genuine question? It was meant to be ironic and sardonic. There are dictators with weapons everywhere but we do not invade because of all the reasons you give. If anyone else took me literally, please be sure that was not intended. Nancy On 7 Oct 2003, at 16:29, Carrol Cox <<[log in to unmask]> wrote: 7F00,0000,0000> Nancy Gish - Women's Studies wrote: > > > > [clip] > > > But the question is what should be done to prevent that. An > > argument was made and can still be made that inspections worked > > and were working and that is why his "program" was not producing. > > Why are we, then, not invading North Korea? > > This is true as far as it goes, but not quite acceptable. What right > does any nation have to dictate the internal affairs (including weapons > program) of any other sovereign nation? There is a certain hubris in the > U.S. state's pretensions to dictate to the rest of the world. And as to > nuclear weapons, the only nation to actually use such a weapon, as well > as the only nation to refuse, even nominally, to renounce first use of > such weapons, is the United States. > > Carrol > > P.S. I initiated the first part of the subject line, intending to > broaden the scope of posts for the Eliot discussion list. I'm not sure, > however, that most recent posts fall even under my quite flexible > criteria of "relevance," of what is and is not "off" or "on" topic. :-) > > P.S. 2. Gunnar quotes Kipling, relevantly, but I think even more focused > on the present situation is another poem of Kiplings, written over a > century ago, published in the United States, and intended to urge and > support the policies which the war criminals William McKinley, Theodore > Roosevelt, and William Howard Taft subsequently followed in the > Philippines: > > The White Man's Burden > By Rudyard Kipling > > Take up the White Man's burden-- > Send forth the best ye breed-- > Go, bind your sons to exile > To serve your captives' need; > To wait, in heavy harness, > On fluttered folk and wild-- > Your new-caught sullen peoples, > Half devil and half child. > > Take up the White Man's burden-- > In patience to abide, > To veil the threat of terror > And check the show of pride; > By open speech and simple, > An hundred times made plain, > To seek another's profit > And work another's gain. > > Take up the White Man's burden-- > The savage wars of peace-- > Fill full the mouth of Famine, > And bid the sickness cease; > And when your goal is nearest > (The end for others sought) > Watch sloth and heathen folly > Bring all your hope to nought. > > Take up the White Man's burden-- > No iron rule of kings, > But toil of serf and sweeper-- > The tale of common things. > The ports ye shall not enter, > The roads ye shall not tread, > Go, make them with your living > And mark them with your dead. > > Take up the White Man's burden, > And reap his old reward-- > The blame of those ye better > The hate of those ye guard-- > The cry of hosts ye humour > (Ah, slowly!) toward the light:-- > "Why brought ye us from bondage, > Our loved Egyptian night?" > > Take up the White Man's burden-- > Ye dare not stoop to less-- > Nor call too loud on Freedom > To cloak your weariness. > By all ye will or whisper, > By all ye leave or do, > The silent sullen peoples > Shall weigh your God and you. > > Take up the White Man's burden! > Have done with childish days-- > The lightly-proffered laurel, > The easy ungrudged praise: > Comes now, to search your manhood > Through all the thankless years, > Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom, > The judgment of your peers. > > --- > McClure's Magazine 12 (Feb. 1899). > > I suggest two additional texts from the past, the remarks of a famous > Marine officer who died in 1940, Major General Smedley Butler (See URL > below), and Mark Twain's, "To the Person Sitting in Darkness," which was > inspired by the war Kipling flacked for. > > http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm > > Smedley Darlington Butler > Major General - United States Marine Corps [Retired] > Born West Chester, Pa., July 30, 1881 > Awarded two congressional medals of honor, for capture of Vera Cruz, > Mexico, 1914, > and for capture of Ft. Riviere, Haiti, 1917 > Distinguished service medal, 1919 > Retired Oct. 1, 1931 > Republican Candidate for Senate, 1932 > Died at Naval Hospital, Philadelphia, June 21, 1940 > > See also > http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm > > http://www.lewrockwell.com/shaffer/shaffer42.html > > http://www.grunts.net/legends/butler2.html > > (I didn't check the home page of the last, but it looks rather > interesting.)