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Dear Will,

Take just one example:  you are in a trench; it is filled with water; the
water is freezing; it is full of rats and lice; the Germans are shelling you;
you have not slept for 24 hours; your friend is screaming with his guts out
just over the ridge in no man's land and you will die if you stick your head
up; he never stops screaming;  the smell of dead humans and horses is
beyond words and inescapable; a shell hits your trench and you are buried
alive in mud and filth and feces and lice and rats. But you are dug out and
taken to a field hospital, where they keep you alive.  You are shaking and
unable to speak.  They call it hysterical mutism and send you to England
to recover.  Maybe you do in some sense that allows them to send you
back or maybe you never do.

That is WWI.  Except it is a very mild and comforting version.  And if you
never speak again and spend your life in a mental institution (in 1925
something like 500,000 were so institutionalized--from memory of Lancet),
if you never do speak or work or love or live normally, is that because you
brought it on yourself?

Those are, by the way, the kinds of stories Maurice Haigh-Wood brought
back from France when he visited Tom and Viv and what memoirs are full
of.

Or did I misunderstand what was accurate?
Cheers,
Nancy



Date sent:              Mon, 30 Jun 2003 23:05:04 -0400
Send reply to:          "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:                   William Gray <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:                Re: OT: After the Hours
To:                     [log in to unmask]

Nancy,
     I respect your opinion. I may be mistaken but believe I'm accurate --
     though I won't press it.

Cheers,
Will

>>> [log in to unmask] 06/30/03 05:02PM >>>
Dear Will,

I am sorry but this is simply not true.  For example, post-traumatic
stress disorder is not brought on by oneself.  Schizophrenia is not
brought on by oneself.  Depression can be caused by many events that
trigger it.

And the only "guilt" associated with being gay is one imposed from
outside.  If, in fact, there is a god, and if god made gay people, then it
seems a rather unreligious position to cause anyone guilt for being made.

In any case, depression is no respecter of sexuality.

Nancy


Date sent:              Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:17:03 -0400
Send reply to:          "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum."
<[log in to unmask]> From:                   William Gray <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:                Re: OT: After the Hours To:
[log in to unmask]

Just for interest's sake, George, most doctors realize that a large
percentage of medical problems are brought on mentally the patient himself
(i.e., stress, anxiety, etc). Homosexuality is just the kind of thing that
would bring on depression (not in every case, I'm sure) because of guilt
associated with it. Just another thought to add to yours.

Cheers,
Will

>>> [log in to unmask] 06/30/03 01:41PM >>>
Kate wrote:

> that she did suffer from Schizophrenia as well as depression at times,
> the latter probably the result of the deep love she felt for her husband
> being at

Depression isn't particularly "caused" by anything (although stress etc.
can trigger it).  It is a medical illness, and it's very simplistic to
suggest that depression could be the direct result of "deep love" or
homosexuality or anything much else.

Just thought that should be pointed out..
--George