Print

Print


Why not suggest that TSEliot suffered from a "rock fetish"?  What with the
ten choruses published in 1934, and the generally anti-Semitic Holy See
having been originally Peter's Rock?

Jacek
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nancy Gish" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: Prufrock's "smoke"


> Dear Vishvesh,
>
> I'm not clear on what you think sensible, but it cannot be this claim that
> anyone else is "reducing"  all of Eliot to sexual meaning.  No one is, and
I
> think the assumption that they are is simply reducing other members of
> the list--who are trying to raise an interesting issue--in a gratuitious
way.  I
> think that it is very difficult to even suggest that "Prufrock" is not
> preoccupied with sex since it is all about relations with women, was
> originally titled "Prufrock among the Women," has images of desire
> throughout, alludes to "To His Coy Mistress" and in the omitted section
> overtly depicts prostitution.
>
> So unkind sniping at those who have raised the issue is simply not
> sensible.
> Nancy
>
>
>
> Date sent:              Wed, 2 Apr 2003 05:43:40 -0800
> Send reply to:          "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum."
<[log in to unmask]>
> From:                   Vishvesh Obla <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject:                Re: Prufrock's "smoke"
> To:                     [log in to unmask]
>
> "Eliot may well have written every second of his
> non-poetic writing about sex. He may have lived, eaten
> and breathed every waking, non-poetry writing second
> for lust, for all I care. That does not reduce every
> line of his poetry to a sexual meaning, or to fodder
> for someone's fanciful inclinations based on material
> outside the poem..."
>
> Thank God, I saw something sensible !
>
> Didn't Eliot himself somewhere regret for the mad
> goose chase for the holy grail his notes to wasteland
> led to?  I am somehow reminded of it !
>
> vishvesh
>
> --- Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > I wasn't thinking of your ideas. I'm not interested
> > in your
> > ideas, least of all on the shapes of clouds. In
> > fact, I believe
> > it was Nancy who saw the three masted ship.
> >
> > Eliot may well have written every second of his
> > non-poetic writing about sex. He may have lived,
> > eaten
> > and breathed every waking, non-poetry writing second
> > for lust, for all I care. That does not reduce every
> > line of his poetry to a sexual meaning, or to fodder
> > for someone's fanciful inclinations based on
> > material
> > outside the poem.
> >
> > In fact such sexual obsession need not have any
> > implications for any of his poetry.
> >
> > As to what I think? Nope. I'm not supplying birds
> > for this shooting gallery. You can do that if you
> > want.
> > I have better things to do.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Peter.
> >
> > Dr. Peter C. Montgomery
> > Dept. of English
> > Camosun College
> > 3100 Foul Bay Rd.
> > Victoria, BC CANADA V8P 5J2
> > [log in to unmask]
> > www.camosun.bc.ca/~peterm
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nancy Gish [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:25 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Prufrock's "smoke"
> >
> >
> > I am sorry, but I doubt that you have any idea what
> > mine is--especially on
> > Prufrock.  And it is an inconvenient fact--for your
> > view--that Eliot wrote
> > constantly about sex and that there are parallels in
> > his letters.  No one is
> > jamming.  But that is not even what I happen to
> > think most interesting
> > about the poem or what I am writing about.  So
> > please do present
> > whatever you think I think, but it won't be what I
> > think
> > Nancy
> >
> >
> >
> > Date sent:              Tue, 1 Apr 2003 22:02:27
> > -0800
> > Send reply to:          "T. S. Eliot Discussion
> > forum."
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> > From:                   Peter Montgomery
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject:                Re: Prufrock's "smoke"
> > To:                     [log in to unmask]
> >
> > I must admit I'm very tempted to present Nancy's.
> > A discussion of Eliot's poetry is one thing, but
> > of his sex life as jammed into or on his poems
> > is another.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Peter.
> >
> > Dr. Peter C. Montgomery
> > Dept. of English
> > Camosun College
> > 3100 Foul Bay Rd.
> > Victoria, BC CANADA V8P 5J2
> > [log in to unmask]
> > www.camosun.bc.ca/~peterm
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nancy Gish [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 9:50 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Prufrock's "smoke"
> >
> >
> > Charlie Brown is called "Charlie Brown" and "Chuck"
> > and "that little
> > roundheaded kid."  He is never called "Chuckie."  Is
> > this an example of a
> > secret code in reading the strip?
> >
> > And then, of course, his perceptions are also not
> > represented in the strip
> > as very nuanced.
> >
> > Or, to be serious, Steve and D.Peters and Raphael
> > have done what others
> > have not and everyone claims to want--started a
> > discussion of Eliot.  Why
> > are these and Jacek's quite gratuitously sneering
> > comments the result? Why
> > not suggest what you think a serious reading?  Say,
> > Linus's? Nancy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Date sent:              Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:40:37
> > -0800
> > Send reply to:          "T. S. Eliot Discussion
> > forum."
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> > From:                   Peter Montgomery
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject:                Re: Prufrock's "smoke"
> > To:                     [log in to unmask]
> >
> > From: INGELBIEN RAPHAEL [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >
> > Signalling their 'availability'? This seems to be
> > some sort of seedy
> > neighbourhood ('narrow streets'), but is it a
> > cruising area? Cruising from
> > a window doesn't seem very practical - or is it?
> > ====================================== What a
> > discussion. When I see a
> > poem read as if it were some sort of secret code for
> > which one has to
> > develop a decryption key, or better yet a lock into
> > which one is trying to
> > jam a predetermined decryption key, I think of a
> > strip of the Charlie
> > Brown cartoon, in which Chuckie and his friends are
> > lying on their backs
> > staring up at the clouds, and describing the shapes
> > they can find therein.
> > Chuckie's friends find all kinds of sophisticated
> > objects like 3 masted
> > ships, and gorillas standing on their heads, &c.
> > Chuckie says something
> > like "Good grief! And all I saw was two rabbits and
> > a duckie."
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Peter.
> >
> > Dr. Peter C. Montgomery
> > Dept. of English
> > Camosun College
> > 3100 Foul Bay Rd.
> > Victoria, BC CANADA V8P 5J2
> > [log in to unmask]
> > www.camosun.bc.ca/~peterm
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
> http://tax.yahoo.com