Print

Print


Dear Vishvesh,

I'm not clear on what you think sensible, but it cannot be this claim that
anyone else is "reducing"  all of Eliot to sexual meaning.  No one is, and I
think the assumption that they are is simply reducing other members of
the list--who are trying to raise an interesting issue--in a gratuitious way.  I
think that it is very difficult to even suggest that "Prufrock" is not
preoccupied with sex since it is all about relations with women, was
originally titled "Prufrock among the Women," has images of desire
throughout, alludes to "To His Coy Mistress" and in the omitted section
overtly depicts prostitution.

So unkind sniping at those who have raised the issue is simply not
sensible.
Nancy



Date sent:              Wed, 2 Apr 2003 05:43:40 -0800
Send reply to:          "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:                   Vishvesh Obla <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:                Re: Prufrock's "smoke"
To:                     [log in to unmask]

"Eliot may well have written every second of his
non-poetic writing about sex. He may have lived, eaten
and breathed every waking, non-poetry writing second
for lust, for all I care. That does not reduce every
line of his poetry to a sexual meaning, or to fodder
for someone's fanciful inclinations based on material
outside the poem..."

Thank God, I saw something sensible !

Didn't Eliot himself somewhere regret for the mad
goose chase for the holy grail his notes to wasteland
led to?  I am somehow reminded of it !

vishvesh

--- Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I wasn't thinking of your ideas. I'm not interested
> in your
> ideas, least of all on the shapes of clouds. In
> fact, I believe
> it was Nancy who saw the three masted ship.
>
> Eliot may well have written every second of his
> non-poetic writing about sex. He may have lived,
> eaten
> and breathed every waking, non-poetry writing second
> for lust, for all I care. That does not reduce every
> line of his poetry to a sexual meaning, or to fodder
> for someone's fanciful inclinations based on
> material
> outside the poem.
>
> In fact such sexual obsession need not have any
> implications for any of his poetry.
>
> As to what I think? Nope. I'm not supplying birds
> for this shooting gallery. You can do that if you
> want.
> I have better things to do.
>
> Cheers,
> Peter.
>
> Dr. Peter C. Montgomery
> Dept. of English
> Camosun College
> 3100 Foul Bay Rd.
> Victoria, BC CANADA V8P 5J2
> [log in to unmask]
> www.camosun.bc.ca/~peterm
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nancy Gish [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:25 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Prufrock's "smoke"
>
>
> I am sorry, but I doubt that you have any idea what
> mine is--especially on
> Prufrock.  And it is an inconvenient fact--for your
> view--that Eliot wrote
> constantly about sex and that there are parallels in
> his letters.  No one is
> jamming.  But that is not even what I happen to
> think most interesting
> about the poem or what I am writing about.  So
> please do present
> whatever you think I think, but it won't be what I
> think
> Nancy
>
>
>
> Date sent:              Tue, 1 Apr 2003 22:02:27
> -0800
> Send reply to:          "T. S. Eliot Discussion
> forum."
> <[log in to unmask]>
> From:                   Peter Montgomery
> <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject:                Re: Prufrock's "smoke"
> To:                     [log in to unmask]
>
> I must admit I'm very tempted to present Nancy's.
> A discussion of Eliot's poetry is one thing, but
> of his sex life as jammed into or on his poems
> is another.
>
> Cheers,
> Peter.
>
> Dr. Peter C. Montgomery
> Dept. of English
> Camosun College
> 3100 Foul Bay Rd.
> Victoria, BC CANADA V8P 5J2
> [log in to unmask]
> www.camosun.bc.ca/~peterm
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nancy Gish [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 9:50 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Prufrock's "smoke"
>
>
> Charlie Brown is called "Charlie Brown" and "Chuck"
> and "that little
> roundheaded kid."  He is never called "Chuckie."  Is
> this an example of a
> secret code in reading the strip?
>
> And then, of course, his perceptions are also not
> represented in the strip
> as very nuanced.
>
> Or, to be serious, Steve and D.Peters and Raphael
> have done what others
> have not and everyone claims to want--started a
> discussion of Eliot.  Why
> are these and Jacek's quite gratuitously sneering
> comments the result? Why
> not suggest what you think a serious reading?  Say,
> Linus's? Nancy
>
>
>
>
> Date sent:              Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:40:37
> -0800
> Send reply to:          "T. S. Eliot Discussion
> forum."
> <[log in to unmask]>
> From:                   Peter Montgomery
> <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject:                Re: Prufrock's "smoke"
> To:                     [log in to unmask]
>
> From: INGELBIEN RAPHAEL [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>
> Signalling their 'availability'? This seems to be
> some sort of seedy
> neighbourhood ('narrow streets'), but is it a
> cruising area? Cruising from
> a window doesn't seem very practical - or is it?
> ====================================== What a
> discussion. When I see a
> poem read as if it were some sort of secret code for
> which one has to
> develop a decryption key, or better yet a lock into
> which one is trying to
> jam a predetermined decryption key, I think of a
> strip of the Charlie
> Brown cartoon, in which Chuckie and his friends are
> lying on their backs
> staring up at the clouds, and describing the shapes
> they can find therein.
> Chuckie's friends find all kinds of sophisticated
> objects like 3 masted
> ships, and gorillas standing on their heads, &c.
> Chuckie says something
> like "Good grief! And all I saw was two rabbits and
> a duckie."
>
> Cheers,
> Peter.
>
> Dr. Peter C. Montgomery
> Dept. of English
> Camosun College
> 3100 Foul Bay Rd.
> Victoria, BC CANADA V8P 5J2
> [log in to unmask]
> www.camosun.bc.ca/~peterm


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com