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I wasn't thinking of your ideas. I'm not interested in your
ideas, least of all on the shapes of clouds. In fact, I believe
it was Nancy who saw the three masted ship.

Eliot may well have written every second of his
non-poetic writing about sex. He may have lived, eaten
and breathed every waking, non-poetry writing second
for lust, for all I care. That does not reduce every
line of his poetry to a sexual meaning, or to fodder
for someone's fanciful inclinations based on material
outside the poem.

In fact such sexual obsession need not have any
implications for any of his poetry.

As to what I think? Nope. I'm not supplying birds
for this shooting gallery. You can do that if you want.
I have better things to do.

Cheers,
Peter.

Dr. Peter C. Montgomery
Dept. of English
Camosun College
3100 Foul Bay Rd.
Victoria, BC CANADA V8P 5J2
[log in to unmask]
www.camosun.bc.ca/~peterm


-----Original Message-----
From: Nancy Gish [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Prufrock's "smoke"


I am sorry, but I doubt that you have any idea what mine is--especially on
Prufrock.  And it is an inconvenient fact--for your view--that Eliot wrote
constantly about sex and that there are parallels in his letters.  No one is
jamming.  But that is not even what I happen to think most interesting
about the poem or what I am writing about.  So please do present
whatever you think I think, but it won't be what I think
Nancy



Date sent:              Tue, 1 Apr 2003 22:02:27 -0800
Send reply to:          "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum."
<[log in to unmask]>
From:                   Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:                Re: Prufrock's "smoke"
To:                     [log in to unmask]

I must admit I'm very tempted to present Nancy's.
A discussion of Eliot's poetry is one thing, but
of his sex life as jammed into or on his poems
is another.

Cheers,
Peter.

Dr. Peter C. Montgomery
Dept. of English
Camosun College
3100 Foul Bay Rd.
Victoria, BC CANADA V8P 5J2
[log in to unmask]
www.camosun.bc.ca/~peterm


-----Original Message-----
From: Nancy Gish [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 9:50 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Prufrock's "smoke"


Charlie Brown is called "Charlie Brown" and "Chuck" and "that little
roundheaded kid."  He is never called "Chuckie."  Is this an example of a
secret code in reading the strip?

And then, of course, his perceptions are also not represented in the strip
as very nuanced.

Or, to be serious, Steve and D.Peters and Raphael have done what others
have not and everyone claims to want--started a discussion of Eliot.  Why
are these and Jacek's quite gratuitously sneering comments the result? Why
not suggest what you think a serious reading?  Say, Linus's? Nancy




Date sent:              Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:40:37 -0800
Send reply to:          "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum."
<[log in to unmask]>
From:                   Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:                Re: Prufrock's "smoke"
To:                     [log in to unmask]

From: INGELBIEN RAPHAEL [mailto:[log in to unmask]]

Signalling their 'availability'? This seems to be some sort of seedy
neighbourhood ('narrow streets'), but is it a cruising area? Cruising from
a window doesn't seem very practical - or is it?
====================================== What a discussion. When I see a
poem read as if it were some sort of secret code for which one has to
develop a decryption key, or better yet a lock into which one is trying to
jam a predetermined decryption key, I think of a strip of the Charlie
Brown cartoon, in which Chuckie and his friends are lying on their backs
staring up at the clouds, and describing the shapes they can find therein.
Chuckie's friends find all kinds of sophisticated objects like 3 masted
ships, and gorillas standing on their heads, &c. Chuckie says something
like "Good grief! And all I saw was two rabbits and a duckie."

Cheers,
Peter.

Dr. Peter C. Montgomery
Dept. of English
Camosun College
3100 Foul Bay Rd.
Victoria, BC CANADA V8P 5J2
[log in to unmask]
www.camosun.bc.ca/~peterm