 |
 |
Here are some quotes I managed to type(They are from Leavis' book: D.H.Lawrence: novelist. I dont have the original source) "Lawrence has three aspects, and it is very difficult to do justice to all. I do not expect to be able to do so. The first is the ridiculous: his lack of a sense of humour, a certain snobbery, a lack not so much of information as of the critical faculties which education should give, and an incapacity for what we ordinarily call thinking. …secondly there is the extraordinarily keen sensibility and capacity for profound intuition – intuition from which he commonly he drew the wrong conclusion. Third, there is a distinct sexual morbidity". (After Strange Gods) "He never succeeded in making a work of art" (criterion) "He was an impatient and impulsive man (or so I imagine him to have been; for, like the author of the book, I never knew him). He was a man of fitful and profound insights, rather than of rationcinative powers; and therefore he was an impatient man; he expressed some of his insights in the form least likely to make them acceptable to most of his contemporaries, and sometimes in a form which almost willfully encouraged misunderstanding…Wrong as he often was (I think) from ignorance, prejudice, or drawing the wrong conclusions in his conscious mind form the insights which came to him from below consciousness: it will take time to dissociate the superficial error from the fundamental truth. To me, also, he seems often to write very badly: but to be a writer who had to write often badly in order to write something well. As for his religious attitude… we can now begin to see how much was ignorance, rather than hostility; for Lawrence was an ignorant man in the sense that he was unaware of how much he did not know... " Of Lawrence's mother: "Vague hymn-singing pietism…which does not seem to have provided her with any firm principles by which to scrutinize the conduct of her sons".(Foreword to D.H.Lawrence and Human Existence, by Fr. William Tiverton) -------------------------- Peter Montgomery wrote:I don't see anything wrong with being provocative.All ideas need to be challenged. My concern iswith the generalities, which imply that Eliot had anegative attitude to Lawrence. Fine. I agree that heprobably did. All I want is to see some of thestatements on which your, possibly valid, assertionis made.I haven't looked at that side of Eliot recently, so I'mnot familiar with the literature. How about a quote ortwo. Seems to me that Eliot was consistent with hisoriginal assertions in After Strange Gods that modernwriters like Lawrence, and I think he even cited Pound,crreated characters who lacked real will. They arepeople to whom things happen. He got Pound flippingmad on that subject, and as I remember they carriedon an endless correspondence in NEW about it. Nowthe question is, to what degree was Eliot influencedby another writer with his own anti-semetic bonesin his closet, Percy Wyndham Lewis and his book,MEN WITHOUT ART in which he tore into a numberof writers (including Eliot whom he called a PSEUDOIST)in some cases because they created characters wholacked executive will and intelligence. He drove Hemingwayto utter destructiveness with that criticism. Ol' Pappytore Shakespeare and Company to bits when he read that.Seems to me those are really important qurestions.So there. I've put some minimal specifics on the table,which I think are provocative and worth serious discussionin an age of Prufrocks who have no will, and littleintelligence. They are consumers. Soma addicts.Unfortunately I don't have time to look up more textsto broaden the discussion.So lets see some of your texts which show Eliot beingnegative about Lawrence.If I'm being critical, it is only about the lack of specifics,not about being provacative as such. Being provocativewithout specifics comes across as game playing. Fine.I'm happy to take you at your word as being serious.I just don't see how I can answer you without specifics.And I'm just an 'umble instructor at yer service. Noreal prof.:)Cheers,Peter.Dr. Peter C. Montgomery Dept. of English Camosun College 3100 Foul Bay Rd. Victoria, BC CANADA V8P 5J2 [log in to unmask] www.camosun.bc.ca/~peterm -----Original Message-----From: Vishvesh Obla [mailto:[log in to unmask]]Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:16 AMTo: [log in to unmask]: Re : Eliot and LawrenceDear Professor Montgomery, Let me say that I am sorry if I had offended anyone. No, I didn't try to be provocative, but if I sounded so, let me first apologize for it. I am quite baffled by Eliot's attitude towards Lawrence and I am only trying to see how far I have been right in understanding it. For, Eliot matters much to me as Lawrence and Leavis do. But I feel that behind the animosity shown by Eliot there is a key to a finer perception of both their art, and this is worth scrutiny. Let me repeat again, that if I appear provocative in doing it, it is not intentional. Dear Nancy,Thanks for your kind words. Nancy Gish wrote:It is interesting that Eliot does provoke provocation to a serious end. Thecurrent issue of Modernism/Modernity is very provocative, but a set of veryserious scholars all seem to think the stakes important--on both sides ofthe anti-Semitism issue. I appreciate the post from Vishvesh as opening areal question about the ways Eliot spoke on culture.Had Eliot stuck to poetry and especially nonprovocative poetry (did hewrite any?), no doubt these questions would not come up. But Eliotchose to make cultural pronouncements. That is what creates the debate.NancyDate sent: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 19:29:36 -0800Send reply to: "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." From: Peter Montgomery Subject: Re: Re : Eliot and LawrenceTo: [log in to unmask]: Vishvesh Obla [mailto:[log in to unmask] COM]I remember some remarks made earlier that Eliot with his kind ofeducational, Elizabethan and religious background couldn't have foundLawrence to his liking. But when you read Eliot's comments on Lawrence,they appear much more than that ; nor can they be considered passingremarks or minor judgements, which could be flawed and hence not viewedseriously. There is a cynical force behind them which makes them all themore to be analysed.===================================================You have some interesting generalisations here that make onethink that Eliot's view on Middleton might be brought into play,but without specifics, it's not really worth the effort. It's a wholelot easier just to think you are just being provocative to no good end.Dr. Peter C. MontgomeryDept. of EnglishCamosun College3100 Foul Bay Rd.Victoria, BC CANADA V8P [log in to unmask] you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/