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Nancy said:
Since you seemed quite worked up over it, one might ask "whose chains?"
======================
That's interesting. "seemed" to you maybe. This is a very
incomplete medium. As I remember, I was in a hurry, and the
words "women's liberation" or "women's movement" wouldn't
come to mind, but feminism did. To me they're all much of
a muchness. I suppose if one needed an arbiter, the OED
would do.

So tell me, where in the pantheon of women's issues
would you put my favourite feminist, Eleanor of Aquitaine,
and what label would you give her?

As Joyce said, (somewhere? - FW?) "Love thy label as thy self."

Dr. Peter C. Montgomery
Dept. of English
Camosun College
3100 Foul Bay Rd.
Victoria, BC CANADA V8P 5J2
[log in to unmask]
www.camosun.bc.ca/~peterm


-----Original Message-----
From: Nancy Gish [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 6:45 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: What the word feminism means


Since you seemed quite worked up over it, one might ask "whose chains?"

It remains difficult to understand your stake in redifining the word for
whatever purposes you choose.  But the topic has no doubt run dry as it is
an issue of historical definitions and not really a debate about any
feminist
ideas.
Nancy


Date sent:              Mon, 2 Dec 2002 18:30:50 -0800
Send reply to:          "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum."
<[log in to unmask]>
From:                   Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:                Re: What the word feminism means
To:                     [log in to unmask]

My original comment, which I have long since aborted
so I can't do a replay here, was simply a facetious
aside; that it yanked such chains is to me a wonder.

Dr. Peter C. Montgomery
Dept. of English
Camosun College
3100 Foul Bay Rd.
Victoria, BC CANADA V8P 5J2
[log in to unmask]
www.camosun.bc.ca/~peterm


-----Original Message-----
From: Carrol Cox [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 6:22 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: What the word feminism means


Peter Montgomery wrote:
>
> From: Nancy Gish [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> the fact that Thatcher is an assertive woman who had a great deal of
> power and no doubt benefited an a broadly general way from the
> developing idea that women could be in politics
> ================================================= For me, the above, as
> you have clearly stated it, was most of the issue, and you seemed very
> reluctant to admit it.
>
> The other part of my point was that the injection of the anima
> factor into politics has not brought about the much vaunted
> changes in less hostility and more compassion that were promoted.
>

(1) We were reluctant to "admit it" because it seems too utterly trivial
to be an issue. I guess I don't understand at all why you even wanted to
mention it.

(2) "Much vaunted changes" seems to refer to a world that doesn't exist. I
would like to know who did the vaunting. I'm not asking for particular
examples -- you can find examples of any damn thing. Someplace in this
hemisphere there is a black woman advocating male and white supremacy on
the basis of a christian atheism. You have to show, for example, that a
politically important sector of the women's liberation movement (regarded
as politically important by most sectors of that movement) advocated ERA
on the basis of its bringing less hostility etc. I don't believe that such
a sector existed. Hence I don't find the non-existence of the "change" of
much interest.

(2a) On there being examples of "any damn thing," there is a recent
book, _Marx's Revenge_ out by s Desai [don't know who he is], the thesis
of which is "capitalism is the true revolutionary force today so Marx
would be a capitalist" now. (I understand that he argues that today Marx
would be a follower of Hayek.)

Carrol