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If it requires clairvoyance, of course there is no reason in discussing it at
all.  I have no idea whether it was inadvertent or based in lack of
knowledge.  (I said nothing at all about what caused it; I just happen to be
interested in grammar.)  But this started when others were correcting
Gunnar, who is not a native speaker, so I can see why he reacts also.  In
any case, it is an error or it is not; if it is, the fact of being inadvertent has
nothing at all to do with what kind.  I'm sure your spelling of "inadvertent"
was inadvertent, but it is still a problem of spelling.
Nancy





Date sent:              Tue, 29 Oct 2002 21:49:50 -0800
Send reply to:          "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:                   Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:                OT:  Jauch's itch or its vs it's
To:                     [log in to unmask]

And I enjoy disagreeing further, but it really depends on whether
the mark was put in inadvertantly or on purpose. Given the simplicity of
the situation, and the matter of the rules being easily understood, I
prefer to think that Herr Schlanger's error is one of inadvertance, rather
than that he really did not know about the difference between its and
it's. It is really a mistaken use of the punctuation when it wasn't
intended, so that grammar has nothing to do with it. It is merely Jauch's
tendentious ignorance that makes it an issue.

Cheers,
Peter.
-----Original Message-----
From: Nancy Gish [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 9:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Handelsblatt newspaper -- Wall St. Poet story


I'm sorry to disagree, but in this case it is also not simply an effect;
it is two quite different words with quite different meanings that are
grammatically different.  One might place both in the category of
spelling, but it remains the distinction of spelling a possessive and
spelling a contraction; a possessive--a case--is an issue of grammar.

Punctuation marks are symbols as much as are letters or words.  Just as
"play" functions in grammatically different ways in "I liked the play"
(noun), "she will play the piano" (verb), "playboy" or "playwright" (part
of a compound noun) or a "play date" (adjective) even though it is the
same morpheme, punctuation marks may also signal functional or grammatical
and not merely "punctuation" differences, i.e., not only pauses, stops,
elisions, etc.

A comma, for example, may set off an appositive or an introductory clause
or many other things, and with restrictive vs. nonrestrictive adjective
clauses it determines the meaning.  These are not "simply" punctuation,
whatever that means, but many functions only indicated by spelling with an
apostrophe.

I think you will find that parts of speech and pronoun case are listed
under "grammar" in standard references as are the corrections for using
adverb clauses as sentences, etc. Nancy

Date sent:              Tue, 29 Oct 2002 21:02:53 -0800
Send reply to:          "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum."
<[log in to unmask]>
From:                   Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:                Re: Handelsblatt newspaper  --  Wall St. Poet
story To:                     [log in to unmask]

The error in punctuation may have a grammatical effect,
as such errors frequently do, but that does not make
them grammatical errors.

What!? No observation about my proofreading error?

P.
-----Original Message-----
From: Nancy Gish [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 8:51 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Handelsblatt newspaper -- Wall St. Poet story


Actually it is not simply punctuation.  It is a difference--between a
contraction and a possessive--that is indicated by a punctuation mark. But
the difference in function is grammatical.  One shows a difference in
structure (and informality of diction) and the other a difference in case.

The phrase "it's readership" means "it is readership" rather than "the
readership that belongs to it."

Nancy


Date sent:              Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:51:53 -0800
Send reply to:          "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum."
<[log in to unmask]>
From:                   Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:                Re: Handelsblatt newspaper  --  Wall St. Poet
story To:                     [log in to unmask]

Time to grow up Gunnar;
you've picked one too many nits.

See below. Get your proof reading straight.

BTW, the issue to which you speak is one of punctuation, not of grammar.

Peter.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gunnar Jauch [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 1:29 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Handelsblatt newspaper -- Wall St. Poet story


am 29.10.2002 21:53 Uhr schrieb [log in to unmask] unter
[log in to unmask]:

> what type of newspaper this is, it's readership, et cetera?

Hey, Wall Street Poet

======================================================
==
get you grammar straight -- it's "its readership"! ;-)
    ^^^    <--------------------------------------------
======================================================
==
B.t.w.: 't is is a good one!
           ^^^^^    <-----------------------------------
===========================

Cheers,


Gunnar