Dear Jennifer,

"Rejected" is a valid meaning in either your sentence or mine.  Pound did
accept or reject various parts and then Eliot chose to agree or disagree
with the rejection, thus rejecting  or not also.  It is not a matter of one or
the other being a correct reading.  Also, it is not a matter of reinstating; it
is a matter of the impact on the poem of the sequence of material.  As I
am writing on this topic at the moment, I see a great significance to that
sequence.  Marjorie Perloff's new book argues for a major shift in Eliot's
"avant garde" style at this point in his work, and I think it was not after but
within TWL.  Too long to discuss but not, as I think you seem to suggest
(I may misunderstand) simply a question of Eliot's aesthetic decisions in
the process of editing.

Date sent:              Sat, 26 Oct 2002 12:01:28 +0100
Send reply to:          "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:                   Jennifer Formichelli <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:                Re: TWL epigraph/ Reply to Nancy, re Pound
To:                     [log in to unmask]

Dear Nancy,

I have to take objection to your statement that Pound 'rejected' the
Conrad quotation. Eliot rejected it, after Pound told him to do as he
liked (see Letters).

I wonder why so people feel inclined to reinstate it.

Yours, Jennifer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nancy Gish" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 5:36 AM
Subject: Re: TWL epigraph

> I think it is important that this epigraph was a substitution for the
> passage Pound rejected.  And it was added at the end, though the poem
> was not all written after the war.  Some of it was written "as early as
> 1914."  So the chronology matters here.  Whatever Eliot was doing with
> the Satyricon was added after "The Horror! The Horror!" was displaced
> when it was in its final stages.  That may well mean it was a reaction
> to the devastation of the war, especially since Eliot had just been
> reading Hermann Hesse.  I don't know when he first thought of using
> Conrad, of course, that was also included in the first draft of section
> I so it was
> war but pre-Vittoz and pre-Hesse.
> Nancy
> Date sent:              Fri, 25 Oct 2002 18:52:01 -0700
> Send reply to:          "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum."
<[log in to unmask]>
> From:                   Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject:                Re: TWL epigraph To:
> [log in to unmask]
> Seems one needs to take into account the mood of Europe of the time. The
> devastation physically and morally of WWI created a very depressed view
> of the future, esp. given the implications of Versailles. WWI was
> supposedly the war to end all wars, yet the same old political bulls
> took over the running of the peace with the same old values. The
> decimated young generation of T.E. Lawrence and his lk felt betrayed.
> They thought they were fighting for a whole new regimen. Fat chance.
> Peter
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gunnar Jauch [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 6:12 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: TWL epigraph
> am 25.10.2002 22:01 Uhr schrieb [log in to unmask] unter
> [log in to unmask]:
> If you think about the quote, the Sibyl is wasting away (in fact, she
> has no soul, and is dead already [but still there!]) and so is
> Trimalchio, just as the Roman Empire is falling around them.  TWL is
> full of dead and dying people who exist as Europe crumbles around them.
> You may be right, Michael.
> Perhaps Eliot foresaw the decline of our materialistic "culture" (isn't
> it ironic that he had to work for a bank?), a "culture" based on the
> moloch of money . Perhaps he merely didn't realize that this decline
> would take longer. All indications (ecological, financial and moral)
> seem to be pointing towards a whirling vortex.
> Such a gratuitous use of violence we are seeing in the world  these days
> (9-11, Bali, Palestine, Chechnya, Moscow) would have been unthinkable
> some decades ago. And things tend to get worse: There is the leading
> world nation preparing for war, and there are several nations governed
> by ruthless criminal dictators with weapons for mass destruction. Up to
> now, they haven't used them --  that horrible, hardly imaginable
> scenario hasn't happened yet. But the notion of vast parts of a
> continent turned into a nuclear Waste Land is frighteningly near -- and
> nearly unbearable. And it will have an impact on everyone.
> Gunnar
> Moloch! Moloch! Robot apartments! invisible suburbs! skeleton
> treasuries! blind capitals! demonic industries! spectral nations!
> invincible madhouses! granite cocks! monstrous bombs!
> A.G., 1955