I agree completely.  Our separation of church and state, in fact, is one of the most significant factors that has made this country so strong and vital.  In fact, the freedom to decide for oneself as to the kind of life one wants to lead and to try to make that life and to have by the very nature of society some oppurtunitis of making that life, in my opinion, is the very essesne of America.  Success is not guaranted, but it is a possibility.

One point the person made, however, is true; that one's citizenship is an accident of birth in most cases. And this point is the only one to be considered in a case against attacking that idiot in Iraq.  Most of the people in Iraq are poor and uneducated and not too knowledgeable about the rest of the world, except for the propaganda.  In a war with Iraq, some of these people would be hurt and killed, the veiled women and the uneducated children.  The best way would be, of course, to attempt to smuggle in education, to give them knowledge that would act as a catalyst.  I don't know if this is possible.

In a message dated 9/6/02 11:39:44 PM !!!First Boot!!!, [log in to unmask] writes:

It is difficult to tell, from such an absurd statement, whether this is the
work of a troll or the person is serious.  Let's try forced conversion
during a number of pogroms just for starters.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Will Gray" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 3:16 PM
Subject: OT: Re: Politics kills mailing lists

> Listers:
> I add this only to clarify, and not to take sides. Biblical
> Christianity, wherever it is found, is always accompanied by freedom of
> religion. Unbiblical Christianity, and many other religions, are often
> accompanied by religious oppression.
> America was founded by many who were Christians, and who wanted to
> begin a country marked by freedom of religion, among other things. Of
> course, not all founders were Christians, but there was certainly a
> much higher percentage than today's US politicians.
> Civilization has long been associated with Christianity -- and I do
> mean biblical Christianity. There has been much barbarism in the name
> of Christ which had little to do with anything that Christ would have
> been a part of. That's just a matter of record, not prejudice.
> It doesn't matter whether you're a European or an American or anything
> else. For most people, your citizenship just happens to be in the
> country of your birth. What really matters is if you are pursuing the
> truth, because that is one of the only things that will last beyond
> this life and the universe.
> Cheers,
> Will Gray
> PS -- I too wouldn't mind if we got back to talking about TS Eliot,
> though I don't mind other matters -- if they are connected to a study
> of TS Eliot.
> > Kate's view of W is also Kate's.
> >
> >
> > Date sent:              Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:21:17 EDT
> > Send reply to:          "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum."
> <[log in to unmask]>
> > From:                   [log in to unmask]
> > Subject:                Re: Politics kills mailing lists
> > To:                     [log in to unmask]
> >
> > In a message dated 9/6/2002 3:55:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > [log in to unmask] writes:
> >
> >
> > > I mean, not even the Pope here gives a damn about Islam and Allah,
> why
> > > should you Americans? What makes you think you're more civilized
> than
> > > others? What makes you think you're better than others? What makes
> you
> > > think you can rule the whole world? Just for you have a stupid
> president
> > > that nobody voted, who sez "too many fires?? let's cut some more
> trees,
> > > then"!..?
> > >
> >
> > Maybe because the Terrorists, all fanatical followers of allah, didn't
> > bomb the vatican; they bombed America.  As for Americans being more
> > civilized and better than others, I believe that our Constitution,
> the law
> > of the land, is highly civilized. I never said we were better than
> > everyone or indeed anyone.
> >  However, I do say that our American society is more civilized than
> what
> >  one
> > would find in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc.  I mean, women here can
> > actually walk in the street without wearing veils; they can work, go
> to
> > school, go to the mall; our children are educated.  These basic
> elements
> > alone make our society more civilized than much of the world,
> > unfortunately.  What makes us think we can rule the whole world?
> Maybe
> > because we're doing it.  George W. is hardly stupid and many people
> voted
> > for him.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Kate
> >
> >