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Bob--
I am finally getting around to actually reading posts.  I absolutely agree with
you.  The threat of war with Iraq is just plain stupid and Bush will do anything
he can to get us into a conflict of some sort.  Personally, I think it's some
sort of macho crap--the only way he can be a "real" president is to shed blood.
What is even more frightening, at least to me, is the attitude of the 18 and 19
year old students.  Actually, it's more of a case of the lack of attitude, at
least where I am.  Same thing happened in the Gulf War.  I sent two students and
one of my former students was the only one killed from the university where I
was teaching at the time.  The students were delighted there was a war--it was
like a video game to them.  I am of the generation that grew up with Vietnam on
TV every night.  While I do not have specific memories of where I was when
certain things happened, I do remember an overriding sense of anxiety about the
times.  I wondered, quite seriously, if I would ever be 13.  Living in Houston
and doing duck and cover drills will do that to you.  I have no idea how we go
about convincing this new generation that war is not a video game.  Having the
courage to tell your story will help, but I fear it will not be enough.
I wish you all the best in your search for Peace--both personally and in terms
of our nation.

Regards,

Victoria McLure



Robert Summers wrote:

> Dear Gunnar,
>
> Thanks so much for your informed and considered response to my post.  I am
> only replying to your post because the other posts on this subject are
> neither informed or considered.
>
> One of the veterans I met during my treatment was in the Navy and on one of
> the ships involved in the so called "Gulf of Tonkin" incident.  Their orders
> where to advance towards the shore to provoke an "incident".  Because of my
> security clearance in Vietnam I knew that the US government was consistently
> lying to the American people.  Vietnam changed everything.  No longer do I
> believe in our government.   Foreign policy and intelligence blunders led to
> 58,000 unnecessary deaths.  The blunders were attempted to be covered up by
> lying.
>
> The present situation is different from Vietnam but the lessons from Vietnam
> have not been learned.  Opposed to the "President of the United States" war
> are not necessarily liberals and doves as in Vietnam.  As you indicated four
> star generals are opposed and a retired Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
> Staff.  Before Mr. Bush became president he made it clear that he wanted to
> destroy the Iraqi regime.  He will create some provocation.  His so called
> reasons for this war could be applied to at least a half dozen countries.
>
> Other veterans who feel like I do are in the process of organizing a million
> man/woman march on Washington to protest this war and the sharp funding cuts
> recommended by the President of the United States for benefits promised to
> veterans at the time of their service.  Promises again not honored.
>
> "A man has to do what a man has to do"
>
> Bob Summers
>
> >From: Gunnar Jauch <[log in to unmask]>
> >Reply-To: "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: O.T.: A Vet for Peace
> >Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 01:36:15 +0200
> >
> >am 29.9.2002 1:31 Uhr schrieb Robert Summers unter [log in to unmask]:
> >
> > > My story of course is not at all unique.  The moron that we have as a
> > > president is carefully preparing the American people for war.  Congress
> > > should require this asshole to read the 58.000 names on the Vietnam
> >memorial
> > > and visit all the veterans hospitals before he makes any decisions.
> >This
> > > war is not about anything other than oil.
> > >
> > > Most likely I will be thrown off this list for being too political and
> > > personal.  If I broke the ground rules, I apologize.
> > >
> > > Bob Summers
> >
> >
> >Dear Bob,
> >
> >
> >the threat of war is imminent, and your reluctance to back it courageous
> >, considering that over 70 % of U.S. voters apparently seem to back Mr.
> >Bush's disastrous policy.
> >
> >From our off-list exchanges I have learned about your predicaments, and I
> >can only hope that you carry out your project of a demonstration of
> >veterans
> >against war.
> >
> >Be assured that you are not alone. There have been over 500'000 people
> >demonstrating in Hyde park this week end.
> >
> >As today's New York Time notes, Iraq's refusal to accept the new U.S.
> >demands
> >
> >  "...could also mark the beginning of the transition from diplomacy to war
> >in the Persian Gulf, as President Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair were
> >already wheeling their military forces to higher states of readiness."
> >
> >There have been cautions by retired U.S. four star generals to Congress,
> >Among them was Gen. John P. Hoar, who noted that Mr. Hussein appeared to be
> >preparing for a defense of Baghdad. General Hoar said he feared a
> >"nightmare
> >scenario" of six Iraqi Republican Guard divisions and six additional tank
> >divisions ringed by several thousand antiaircraft guns.
> >
> >"The result would be high casualties on both sides, as well as in the
> >civilian community," he told the Senate Armed Services Committee. "U.S.
> >forces will certainly prevail, but at what cost? And at what cost as the
> >rest of the world watches while we win and have military rounds exploding
> >in
> >densely populated Iraqi neighborhoods?" he asked.
> >
> >But let us go now, you and I, back to our ivory tower.
> >
> >
> >Peace:
> >
> >
> >Gunnar
>
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