Thanks. It is a standard text for WWI in literature. Nancy Date sent: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:25:40 -0400 Send reply to: "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]> From: Thomas Kissane <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: OT Re: Towers and Dust - On Topic: ELiot and WWI To: [log in to unmask] If you're studyng this, you might enjoy "The Great War and Modern Memory" by Paul Fussell. I hesitate to suggest a book just because I happen to have read it, when there are so many great books I haven't read, but this one was right on regarding your subject, and perhaps the best sociological history I've ever read, so it can't hurt for me to throw the suggestion out. Tom K ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Gish" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 8:22 PM Subject: Re: OT Re: Towers and Dust - On Topic: ELiot and WWI > I am working on a paper on this, and it is not about "influence." It is about > the way his own life was far more directly engaged in it and how it then > has an impact on the poem. > > I will be giving it at MSA in October, so it is in very initial stages. > Nancy > > > > Date sent: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 18:19:22 +0200 > Send reply to: "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]> > From: frank kretschmer <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: OT Re: Towers and Dust - On Topic: ELiot and WWI > To: [log in to unmask] > > Nancy: > > >I spent much of the > >summer reading about WWI because I believe Eliot was much more > >immediately and directly affected by it and his poetry more focused on > >it than has been usually discussed. > > Studying WWI poetry as well as WWI rhetoric provides an impressive > example > of how easily people are seduced by what is commonly regarded as > "poetic > measures", most notably by means of metaphorical comparison. I spent > some of my summer holidays studying speeches by Lloyd George and other > political and religious leaders, and found that to a great extend, they > used poetry and poetic means as an effective feature in their > propaganda; using basically metaphorical notions to justify their > joining the war that could otherwise hardly be justified. I would (very > roughly put) argue, that being thus misused, poetics changed > dramatically after WWI, and that especially Pound or Cummings sought for > a new poetic expression after the war _expressive verbis_ due to this > misuse. (Pound i.e. in Mauberley). I do not see such a clear influence > on Eliot though, although there are may echoes of the war in TWL. I must > admit, however, , that I limited my studies on WWI poetry to poems > written during and shortly after the war, ending with Mauberley, and did > not want to undertake the study of Eliot's later poems in this respect. > > During war time, apart from one or two poems published in the > "Inventions", and some articles, Eliot staid mostly silent regard to the > war. To me, his 1943 poem "note on War poetry" is a justification for > this poetic silence, as well as a reconsideration of what war poetry had > achieved and what the relationship of war and poetry should be. > > But then again, as I have said, I have not looked into the matter very > deeply, being mainly concerned with British War propaganda at the > moment. > > Where would you see the influence on Eliot's Poetry? > > Yours, > > Frank > > PS.: > > >What horrified me was the way current > >rhetoric from the White House is the same as the absurdly cheerful > >belief that the War would be quick (over by Christmas) and easy and > >glorious. > > Would be an interesting study what metaphors Bush uses to justify his > war. Without looking, I am that sure he uses them. Some things never > change. > > Oh, and Gunnar: > > >save your fury for a better purpose and ignore her stupid diatribe, ok? > > I wasen't that furious. But somehow I did not feel like ignoring the > mail.