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Dear Gunnar,

Thanks so much for your informed and considered response to my post.  I am
only replying to your post because the other posts on this subject are
neither informed or considered.

One of the veterans I met during my treatment was in the Navy and on one of
the ships involved in the so called "Gulf of Tonkin" incident.  Their orders
where to advance towards the shore to provoke an "incident".  Because of my
security clearance in Vietnam I knew that the US government was consistently
lying to the American people.  Vietnam changed everything.  No longer do I
believe in our government.   Foreign policy and intelligence blunders led to
58,000 unnecessary deaths.  The blunders were attempted to be covered up by
lying.

The present situation is different from Vietnam but the lessons from Vietnam
have not been learned.  Opposed to the "President of the United States" war
are not necessarily liberals and doves as in Vietnam.  As you indicated four
star generals are opposed and a retired Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
Staff.  Before Mr. Bush became president he made it clear that he wanted to
destroy the Iraqi regime.  He will create some provocation.  His so called
reasons for this war could be applied to at least a half dozen countries.

Other veterans who feel like I do are in the process of organizing a million
man/woman march on Washington to protest this war and the sharp funding cuts
recommended by the President of the United States for benefits promised to
veterans at the time of their service.  Promises again not honored.

"A man has to do what a man has to do"

Bob Summers








>From: Gunnar Jauch <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: O.T.: A Vet for Peace
>Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 01:36:15 +0200
>
>am 29.9.2002 1:31 Uhr schrieb Robert Summers unter [log in to unmask]:
>
> > My story of course is not at all unique.  The moron that we have as a
> > president is carefully preparing the American people for war.  Congress
> > should require this asshole to read the 58.000 names on the Vietnam
>memorial
> > and visit all the veterans hospitals before he makes any decisions.
>This
> > war is not about anything other than oil.
> >
> > Most likely I will be thrown off this list for being too political and
> > personal.  If I broke the ground rules, I apologize.
> >
> > Bob Summers
>
>
>Dear Bob,
>
>
>the threat of war is imminent, and your reluctance to back it courageous
>, considering that over 70 % of U.S. voters apparently seem to back Mr.
>Bush's disastrous policy.
>
>From our off-list exchanges I have learned about your predicaments, and I
>can only hope that you carry out your project of a demonstration of
>veterans
>against war.
>
>Be assured that you are not alone. There have been over 500'000 people
>demonstrating in Hyde park this week end.
>
>As today's New York Time notes, Iraq's refusal to accept the new U.S.
>demands
>
>  "...could also mark the beginning of the transition from diplomacy to war
>in the Persian Gulf, as President Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair were
>already wheeling their military forces to higher states of readiness."
>
>There have been cautions by retired U.S. four star generals to Congress,
>Among them was Gen. John P. Hoar, who noted that Mr. Hussein appeared to be
>preparing for a defense of Baghdad. General Hoar said he feared a
>"nightmare
>scenario" of six Iraqi Republican Guard divisions and six additional tank
>divisions ringed by several thousand antiaircraft guns.
>
>"The result would be high casualties on both sides, as well as in the
>civilian community," he told the Senate Armed Services Committee. "U.S.
>forces will certainly prevail, but at what cost? And at what cost as the
>rest of the world watches while we win and have military rounds exploding
>in
>densely populated Iraqi neighborhoods?" he asked.
>
>But let us go now, you and I, back to our ivory tower.
>
>
>Peace:
>
>
>Gunnar




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