I am repeating myself in a new context.  The rose has many meanings in 
4Q, including love, desire, lust, the multifoliate rose of heaven.  It is also 
the historic rose of the Royal Houses of York and Lancaster.  

Date sent:      	Wed, 22 May 2002 14:04:31 -0700
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From:           	"erwin welsch" <[log in to unmask]>
To:             	<[log in to unmask]>
Subject:        	Re: Milton, FQ (why OT?)

Perhaps her ideas have been overtaken by recent biographical revelations,
but Barbara Seward in the chapter entitled "Eliot and Tradition" in her
venerable study, The Symbolic Rose, takes a more traditional approach. 
She views the rose as significant in Eliot's later work.  Therefore it
might follow that it is a more universal symbol related to medieval
Catholic thought that Eliot had embraced as part of his attempt "to make
modern a symbol of an earlier day" rather than to an individual, as
tempting as the Emily Hale relationship, not mentioned and presumably
unknown by Seward, might be. She makes a number of other comments on
Eliot's use of flower symbolism as well as the relationship to Dante and
Beatrice alluded to elsewhere on the list.  Her sophisticated argument is
incapable of adequate summary here, but the line "the Rose of memory and
forgetfulness aids man to forget earthly trials and temptations but to
remember indications of grace and the message of Christ" may be 
suggestive of her views.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Earls, JP" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 12:28 PM
Subject: RE: Milton, FQ (why OT?)

> Thinking about it at Noon Prayer, I was reminded of a couple of other
> 1) Emily Hale was Eliot's Beatrice.  In the Divine Comedy, Beatrice
represents Christ in the Earthly Paradise (restored Garden of Eden).
> 2) Beatrice was also the emissary of the Blessed Virgin at the beginning
of the Inferno. One of Mary's titles is "Mystical Rose," and the structure
of Heaven in the Comedy is a giant rose, presided over by Mary. > Either
of these would be ample warrant for the "royal." > > > J. P. Earls, OSB >
St. John's University > Collegeville, MN 56321 > > > > -----Original
Message----- > From: Rickard A. Parker [mailto:[log in to unmask]] >
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 12:16 PM > To: [log in to unmask] >
Subject: Re: Milton, FQ (why OT?) > > > J.P. Earls wrote: > > > Why it is
"royal" and capitalized I'm not guessing. > > Thanks.  That "Royal"
connected to Hale was the big obstacle for me. > > Regards, >     Rick
Parker >