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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C133FD.694ED100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>> Julius cites Eliot as writing: "The poetry of Isaac Rosenberg . . . = because=20 it is Hebraic . . . is a contribution to English literature. For a = Jewish=20 poet to be able to write like a Jew, in western Europe and in a western=20 European language, is almost a miracle."=20 The review suggests that these words are thrown by Julius together with=20 Wagner's statement (among many) to the effect that: "The Jew speaks the=20 language of the country in which he has lived from generation to=20 generation, but he always speaks it as a foreigner." Unless I misread = the review, it=20 appears to consider these as kindred thoughts. <<<<<< What I'd like to know here is the context of Wagner's words. Eliot is = concerned with the writing of poetry, which is a different matter from = simply 'speaking the language'. Was Wagner also referring to Jewish = writers, or was he making a general comment on the Jewish relation to = European languages? If the latter, then Eliot and Wagner do appear to be = sharing a premiss - if you speak a European language as a foreigner = because your real identity is fundamentally different, then such a = deeply personal act as writing poetry in that language must involve hard = work indeed - and achieving a poem can look like a miracle.=20 The premiss may be the same, but of course Eliot's words sound as if = they're meant to be complimentary - this does not seem to be the case = with Wagner's comment. Incidentally, I wonder whether the label 'Hebraic' is a useful way of = summing up Rosenberg's achievement. Just how fundamental is the Hebraic = element in his poetry - especially in the war poems? =20 =20 As for Julius being 'a respected attorney in Great Britain', I can only = say that English lawyers do not (yet) attract the same amount of = publicity as their American counterparts. He is known to have defended = the interests of the late Diana Spencer-Windsor at some stage; whether = that earned him a lot of respect, I don't know. As for his standing = within the profession, one would have to ask an insider. =20 =20 Yours, =20 Rapha=EBl Ingelbien [log in to unmask] ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C133FD.694ED100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>>>> Julius cites Eliot as = writing:=20 "The poetry of Isaac Rosenberg . . . because <BR>it is Hebraic . . . is = a=20 contribution to English literature. For a Jewish <BR>poet to be = able to=20 write like a Jew, in western Europe and in a western <BR>European = language, is=20 almost a miracle." <BR>The review suggests that these words are thrown = by Julius=20 together with <BR>Wagner's statement (among many) to the effect that: = "The Jew=20 speaks the <BR>language of the country in which he has lived from = generation to=20 <BR>generation, but he always speaks it as a foreigner." Unless I = misread=20 the review, it <BR>appears to consider these as kindred thoughts.=20 <<<<<<<BR><BR>What I'd like to know here is the = context of=20 Wagner's words. Eliot is concerned with the writing of poetry, which is = a=20 different matter from simply 'speaking the language'. Was Wagner = also=20 referring to Jewish writers, or was he making a general = comment on the=20 Jewish relation to European languages? If the latter, then Eliot and = Wagner do=20 appear to be sharing a premiss - if you speak a European language as a = foreigner=20 because your real identity is fundamentally different, then such a = deeply=20 personal act as writing poetry in that language must involve hard = work=20 indeed - and achieving a poem can look like a = miracle. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The premiss may be the same, but of = course Eliot's=20 words sound as if they're meant to be complimentary - = this does not=20 seem to be the case with Wagner's comment.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Incidentally, I wonder whether the = label=20 'Hebraic' is a useful way of summing up Rosenberg's achievement. = Just how=20 fundamental is the Hebraic element in his poetry - especially in the war = poems? </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As for Julius being 'a respected=20 attorney in Great Britain', I can only say that English = lawyers do not=20 (yet) attract the same amount of publicity as their American = counterparts.=20 He is known to have defended the interests of the late Diana = Spencer-Windsor=20 at some stage; whether that earned him a lot of respect, I don't = know. As=20 for his standing within the profession, one would have to ask an = insider.=20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yours,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rapha=EBl Ingelbien</DIV></FONT> <DIV><A=20 href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A></DIV></BO= DY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C133FD.694ED100--