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Ok, Rick, fair enough - I'm being too TSE focussed.

A.

> Octavio Paz in "The Other Voice: Essays on Modern Poetry" gives a
> interesting history of the development of modern poetry from a
> viewpoint not
> French or English.
>
> Rick Seddon
> McIntosh, NM, USA
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arwin van Arum <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Sunday, June 10, 2001 2:22 PM
> Subject: RE: A Mighty Syllogism Our god (was Re: poetry collections
>
>
> >
> >> Now hold on there.
> >>
> >> Not wanting to distract from the thesis that all good things
> proceed from
> >> French and the French, a fact not debatable to the French but some
> >> (admirably non-French) might claim otherwise.
> >
> >I wouldn't have bothered asking you why you brought it up if, in
> fact, that
> >had been my thesis. (now there's a sentence to think about - it
> makes even
> >me dizzy but that could be my flue as well).
> >
> >However, I just said that modernism originated in French poetry.
> >
> >> BUT
> >>
> >> One might debate that the French Impressionists were Moderns at all.
> That
> >> they were influential upon the Moderns is true but so were the
> >> Georgians and
> >> the Symbolists and the Romantics and the neoclassicists and the ... .
> >
> >One might, but that would perhaps betray not having read them?
> Either that,
> >or we disagree on which work by Eliot is actually modernist. Now
> there's an
> >interesting discussion. I've read, among others, both Eliot's Spleen and
> >three other versions, all in French, and, more importantly, by French
> poets.
> >That the influence of the French poets on Eliot's modernist
> poetic diction
> >and even subject matter was very important was discussed by Eliot himself
> on
> >several occasions; haven't you read some of these in fragments
> cited at the
> >end of The March Hare? And yes, you can find traces of every kind of
> >movement everywhere in history, but one trace doesn't make the
> movement. It
> >is, instead, the movement which allows all those traces to be
> picked up and
> >be given a name. Picking up traces was something, incidentally, typically
> >modernist, it seems to me anyway.
> >
> >A.
> >
> >> I can recommend a book ;  "Properitius: Modernist Poet of Antiquity" by
> >> D.Thomas Benediktson.  Whatever he was,  Propertius was not
> >> French.  I guess
> >> he might have been inspired by some Gaelic slave and that this
> is how the
> >> French managed to exert their lingusistic  genius upon the
> development of
> >> Modernism
> >>
> >> Rick Seddon
> >> McIntosh, NM, USA
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Arwin van Arum <[log in to unmask]>
> >> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Date: Sunday, June 10, 2001 11:37 AM
> >> Subject: RE: A Mighty Syllogism Our god (was Re: poetry collections
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> , but because French poets invented modernism (with a slight bit of
> >> >help from Poe, admittedly).
> >> >
> >> >Arwin
> >> >
> >> >> Regards,
> >> >>    Rick Parker
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
>