Isn't Dante treated to a tour of the other worlds at the behest of Beatrice
who detects that without such a tour and immediate purgation Dante would
indeed be one of the souls in a circle.  His sin was that of pride.  A
prideful man he naturally  tries to start out with purgatory ( the mountain
he is turned back from)  but must be taught that the after worlds  are  not
arranged according to who sinned and who did not but rather according to who
repented and who did not.

Rick Seddon
McIntosh, NM, USA

Rick Seddon
McIntosh, NM, USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Arwin van Arum <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Sunday, March 18, 2001 10:55 AM
Subject: RE: Dans le Restaurant and the Commedia

>The explanation is less interesting I think than the detection of the
>allusion; that's what I found convincing. If I recall this properly, then
>the section that is being discussed here takes place even before Dante
>enters hell. It's that part which also returns in The Lord of The Rings,
>isn't it - where Aragorn proposes to go over the Mountain and Gandalf
>proposes to go under the mountains, through Moria. Aragorn prevails and
>try to cross the Mountains first, but they fail and have to go through
>anyway. This is just like Dante who is forced to go through the Underworld
>because these beasts are blocking his way.
>Now the question is whether the position Dante is in can be classified as
>one of damnation. It could be, but I don't think it is - otherwise he
>wouldn't have gotten "the tour", instead he would have undergone one of the
>circles himself, as the lost in the woods implies that he lost his faith,
>doesn't it (in reality caused, no doubt amongst others by studying the
>Romans whom he so admired but were still sent to Hell), combined probably
>with a love gone awry? The whole journey is to restore his faith, and it
>succeeds, and then there is Beatrice.
>But I think it is not very good to call this status 'dead and damnation'.
>the light of TWL it should rather be read as the position of the people who
>live in the land of the Fisher King; the land is dead and damned, perhaps
>you can phrase it like that, but the point is that it will be restored by
>water and the one from the myth who asks the question. It is there that
>Dante's position and that of TWL in general perhaps agree most - Dante's
>journey is, after all, pretty much of the traditional quest kind, intended
>in the end to restore the home front (just like the Hobbits have to put
>things back in order in the hills with the skill and wisdom they gathered
>their journey).
>> I'm missing a logical step.  Supposing for the time being that
>> the correlation
>> exists as observed between the waiter's and Dante's speech: how
>> does the waiter
>> get to be "one of the damned and dead" when Dante isn't?
>> Marcia