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Because I don't wish to encrouch too much on the Duke of URLs territory,
especially with this foot-and-mouth disease (or was it foot-in-mouth ...??
;-) ), here only a very small url that leads you to a tiny project which
could be interesting if they actually pull it off. In any case it mentions a
number (hundreds of millions calculations - mind, that could be only a few
seconds work on today's computers which are rather faster than those big
molochs of the 70s) that in 1996 a much more elegant version of the problem
was discovered, but that they are working on an even more elegant solution.

So it will probably get better eventually ...   who knows there's good-will
or willette a-huntin' out there who one day fits a solution on a simple 2 by
1 chalk-board.

http://www.cs.kun.nl/~freek/4ct/

Arwin
  -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
  Van: [log in to unmask]
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]Namens [log in to unmask]
  Verzonden: maandag 12 maart 2001 23:27
  Aan: [log in to unmask]
  Onderwerp: Re: (VERY) OFF TOPIC - Map coloring


  In a message dated 3/12/01 1:43:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
  [log in to unmask] writes:



    However, it does appear either that Pat will have to learn the math
    involved or that the professors (or their spokespersons) will have to
    learn to express the logic of that math in simple language (back to
    them 26 letters and what they can do, etc), as in the complex ideas of
    Plato expressed in the simple language of Socrates. The alternative
    is....well, more postal slam dancing comes to mind..


  Ken,

  You know, square numbers and triangular numbers were discovered when the
  Pythagoreans sat around playing with pebbles that they  arranged into
square
  and triangular configurations. I suppose there are areas  in mathematics
  where one has to get away from that kind of primitivism, but I doubt that
4CC
  is one of them. I learned something from having to explain complex ideas
to
  students with a limited educational background and a limited ability to
deal
  with abstraction--if you can't explain something to somebody else in
simple
  language, then there's room to ask how well you really understand what
you're
  saying yourself. I think all of us also know what a snow job is. When a
  person makes a big to-do about how I wouldn't understand the answers to
the
  questions I'm asking, or how I shouldn't be asking the questions, etc etc,
I
  begin to wonder what the evasion is about, and what it is I'm not supposed
to
  find out.

  Anyway, Ken, why are you assuming I wouldn't know anything about the Four
  Color Theorem? I've written three books on color, and for the last one I
  wanted to say something a little more intelligent about 4CC than just
  repeating all that blah blah about "nobody understands how to solve it." I
  thought I'd at least like to find out what was supposed to make it so
  unsolvable. So I read Saaty's book, took a lot of notes, and ended up with
  more material than there really was room for in my book. Also, I wanted to
  find our more about the computer program, and Steve is the first person
I've
  come across who's actually familiar with it. I should maybe be starting by
  asking him the simpler questions--like what computer language is it
written
  in, how can I see a copy, and who actually wrote it.

  pat

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<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D387045122-12032001>Because I don't wish to encrouch too much on =
the Duke=20
of URLs territory, especially with this foot-and-mouth disease (or was =
it=20
foot-in-mouth ...?? ;-) ), here only a very small url that leads you to =
a tiny=20
project which could be interesting if they actually pull it off. In any =
case it=20
mentions a number (hundreds of millions calculations - mind, that could =
be only=20
a few seconds work on today's computers which are rather faster than =
those big=20
molochs of the 70s) that in 1996 a much more elegant version of the =
problem was=20
discovered, but that they are working on an even more elegant solution.=20
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D387045122-12032001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D387045122-12032001>So it=20
will probably get better eventually ...&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;who knows =
there's=20
good-will or willette a-huntin' out there who one day fits a solution on =
a=20
simple 2 by 1 chalk-board.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D387045122-12032001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D387045122-12032001><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cs.kun.nl/~freek/4ct/">http://www.cs.kun.nl/~freek/4ct=
/</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D387045122-12032001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D387045122-12032001>Arwin&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
  <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----<BR><B>Van:</B>=20
  [log in to unmask] =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>Namens=20
  </B>[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Verzonden:</B> maandag 12 maart 2001=20
  23:27<BR><B>Aan:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Onderwerp:</B> Re: =
(VERY)=20
  OFF TOPIC - Map coloring<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><FONT =
face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT=20
  face=3D"Arial Narrow" lang=3D0 size=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><B>In a =
message dated=20
  3/12/01 1:43:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>[log in to unmask] =
writes:=20
  <BR><BR></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial lang=3D0 size=3D2=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"></B><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"=20
  TYPE=3D"CITE">However, it does appear either that Pat will have to =
learn the=20
    math <BR>involved or that the professors (or their spokespersons) =
will have=20
    to <BR>learn to express the logic of that math in simple language =
(back to=20
    <BR>them 26 letters and what they can do, etc), as in the complex =
ideas of=20
    <BR>Plato expressed in the simple language of Socrates. The =
alternative=20
    <BR>is....well, more postal slam dancing comes to mind.. =
<BR></FONT><FONT=20
    color=3D#000000 face=3DArial lang=3D0 size=3D3=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000=20
  face=3D"Arial Narrow" lang=3D0 size=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><B>Ken, =
<BR><BR>You know,=20
  square numbers and triangular numbers were discovered when the=20
  <BR>Pythagoreans sat around playing with pebbles that they =
&nbsp;arranged into=20
  square <BR>and triangular configurations. I suppose there are areas =
&nbsp;in=20
  mathematics <BR>where one has to get away from that kind of =
primitivism, but I=20
  doubt that 4CC <BR>is one of them. I learned something from having to =
explain=20
  complex ideas to <BR>students with a limited educational background =
and a=20
  limited ability to deal <BR>with abstraction--if you can't explain =
something=20
  to somebody else in simple <BR>language, then there's room to ask how =
well you=20
  really understand what you're <BR>saying yourself. I think all of us =
also know=20
  what a snow job is. When a <BR>person makes a big to-do about how I =
wouldn't=20
  understand the answers to the <BR>questions I'm asking, or how I =
shouldn't be=20
  asking the questions, etc etc, I <BR>begin to wonder what the evasion =
is=20
  about, and what it is I'm not supposed to <BR>find out. =
<BR><BR>Anyway, Ken,=20
  why are you assuming I wouldn't know anything about the Four <BR>Color =

  Theorem? I've written three books on color, and for the last one I =
<BR>wanted=20
  to say something a little more intelligent about 4CC than just =
<BR>repeating=20
  all that blah blah about "nobody understands how to solve it." I =
<BR>thought=20
  I'd at least like to find out what was supposed to make it so =
<BR>unsolvable.=20
  So I read Saaty's book, took a lot of notes, and ended up with =
<BR>more=20
  material than there really was room for in my book. Also, I wanted to =
<BR>find=20
  our more about the computer program, and Steve is the first person =
I've=20
  <BR>come across who's actually familiar with it. I should maybe be =
starting by=20
  <BR>asking him the simpler questions--like what computer language is =
it=20
  written <BR>in, how can I see a copy, and who actually wrote it.=20
  <BR><BR>pat</B></FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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