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Pat:

Good thought abut Urania in Purgatorio.  Interestingly the "Temple =
Classics" edition of "Purgatorio" that TSE carried in his pocket puts =
that canticle thusly:

Now 'tis meet that Helicon for me stream forth
     and Urania aid me with her choir to set in verse
     things hard to conceive.

Note the last word "conceive" fits nicely into the context of your =
reading.

The note for those lines states:

"Helicon was in reality a _mountain_ in _Boeotia_ sacred to the muses =
(from which _sprang_ two mountains associated with them--Aganippe and =
Hippocrene).  Urania---the Muse of astronomy and heavenly things."

Rick Seddon
McIntosh, NM, USA
    -----Original Message-----
    From: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
    To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
    Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 7:01 PM
    Subject: the Uranian muse again
   =20
   =20
    Steve,=20
   =20
    Maybe we need to review Pound's "Uranian muse"poem again. Urania was =
the muse=20
    of astronomy, and one of her functions was to elevate human =
thought--to=20
    encourage us to, so to speak, look at the stars. She's mentioned in =
that=20
    capacity by Milton, Spenser, and many other authors, and she also =
turns up a=20
    lot in paintings. Here's one url from among many.=20
   =20
    http://www.eliki.com/portals/fantasy/circle/urania.html=20
   =20
    I'm not questioning that some gay men regarded themselves as a =
"third sex"=20
    and wanted to be called Uranians (after the planet rather than the =
muse). But=20
    that goes back no earlier than the mid-1800s, and there's a much =
longer=20
    tradition of Urania as the muse of astronomy.=20
   =20
    Maybe Pound at least was playing with double meanings, and he did =
mention the=20
    muse, not the planet. If Pound thought TWL was a masterpiece, it =
makes sense=20
    for him to say it must have been inspired by the Uranian muse, the =
muse that=20
    elevates our thoughts and inspires us to look at the stars. A little =
nod to=20
    Dante, maybe, because each Cantica of the Commedia ends with the =
word=20
    "stelle" (stars).=20
   =20
    Or maybe more than a little nod. At Eliot's funeral, Pound said, =
"His was the=20
    true Dantescan voice." If Pound thought of Eliot as Dantescan, it =
makes sense=20
    to invoke the Uranian muse, who in a sense might be regarded as =
Dante's muse.=20
    In Purg. 29.41-42, Dante asks Urania to help him write his poem.=20
   =20
    "Urania should help me with her choir=20
    To put in verse things difficult to ponder."=20
   =20
    As for all that childbirth stuff, men have always compared =
creativity to=20
    giving birth, and this might be more male-bonding  jocularity abolut =
the male=20
    "mother" (Eliot) who "gave birth" to the poem.=20
   =20
    I don't have Pound's ditty in front of me as I write this, and I'm =
not saying=20
    I'm sure of any answer. But let's at least reopen the case at some =
point.=20
   =20
    pat=20

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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Pat:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Good thought abut Urania in Purgatorio.&nbsp; =
Interestingly=20
the &quot;Temple Classics&quot; edition of &quot;Purgatorio&quot; that =
TSE=20
carried in his pocket puts that canticle thusly:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Now 'tis meet that Helicon for me stream =
forth</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and Urania aid me with her =
choir to=20
set in verse</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; things hard to =
conceive.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Note the last word &quot;conceive&quot; fits nicely =
into the=20
context of your reading.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The note for those lines states:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&quot;Helicon was in reality a _mountain_ in =
_Boeotia_ sacred=20
to the muses (from which _sprang_ two mountains associated with =
them--Aganippe=20
and Hippocrene).&nbsp; Urania---the Muse of astronomy and heavenly=20
things.&quot;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Rick Seddon</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>McIntosh, NM, USA</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
    </B><A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> =
&lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>&gt;<BR><B>To: =
</B><A=20
    href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> =
&lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>&gt;<BR>=
<B>Date:=20
    </B>Wednesday, February 28, 2001 7:01 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>the =
Uranian muse=20
    again<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT=20
    face=3D"Arial Narrow" lang=3D0 size=3D3 FAMILY =3D =
SANSSERIF><B>Steve, <BR><BR>Maybe=20
    we need to review Pound's &quot;Uranian muse&quot;poem again. Urania =
was the=20
    muse <BR>of astronomy, and one of her functions was to elevate human =

    thought--to <BR>encourage us to, so to speak, look at the stars. =
She's=20
    mentioned in that <BR>capacity by Milton, Spenser, and many other =
authors,=20
    and she also turns up a <BR>lot in paintings. Here's one url from =
among=20
    many. =
<BR><BR>http://www.eliki.com/portals/fantasy/circle/urania.html=20
    <BR><BR>I'm not questioning that some gay men regarded themselves as =
a=20
    &quot;third sex&quot; <BR>and wanted to be called Uranians (after =
the planet=20
    rather than the muse). But <BR>that goes back no earlier than the =
mid-1800s,=20
    and there's a much longer <BR>tradition of Urania as the muse of =
astronomy.=20
    <BR><BR>Maybe Pound at least was playing with double meanings, and =
he did=20
    mention the <BR>muse, not the planet. If Pound thought TWL was a=20
    masterpiece, it makes sense <BR>for him to say it must have been =
inspired by=20
    the Uranian muse, the muse that <BR>elevates our thoughts and =
inspires us to=20
    look at the stars. A little nod to <BR>Dante, maybe, because each =
Cantica of=20
    the Commedia ends with the word <BR>&quot;stelle&quot; (stars). =
<BR><BR>Or=20
    maybe more than a little nod. At Eliot's funeral, Pound said, =
&quot;His was=20
    the <BR>true Dantescan voice.&quot; If Pound thought of Eliot as =
Dantescan,=20
    it makes sense <BR>to invoke the Uranian muse, who in a sense might =
be=20
    regarded as Dante's muse. <BR>In Purg. 29.41-42, Dante asks Urania =
to help=20
    him write his poem. <BR><BR>&quot;Urania should help me with her =
choir=20
    <BR>To put in verse things difficult to ponder.&quot; <BR><BR>As for =
all=20
    that childbirth stuff, men have always compared creativity to =
<BR>giving=20
    birth, and this might be more male-bonding &nbsp;jocularity abolut =
the male=20
    <BR>&quot;mother&quot; (Eliot) who &quot;gave birth&quot; to the =
poem.=20
    <BR><BR>I don't have Pound's ditty in front of me as I write this, =
and I'm=20
    not saying <BR>I'm sure of any answer. But let's at least reopen the =
case at=20
    some point. <BR><BR>pat</B></FONT> =
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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