Print

Print


Thanks Rick.  I will have to check if they've got it in the library.  Like I
said, the term surprised me.  I really don't know too much in the field.  A
long time ago I read "The Book of the Hopi" and some of the themes reminded
me of a Lakota speaker I heard, even though their communities are / were
almost half the country away.  A closeness to the earth, kinship with
animals, a closeness to the dead, et cetera.  Can't remember too much, it
was late 60s / early 70s.  Thanks again.

Robert

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Richard Seddon [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
	Sent:	Thursday, March 22, 2001 1:02 PM
	To:	[log in to unmask]
	Subject:	Re: Rainbow Bridge religion (was: Dans le Rest...)

	Robert:

	As far as I know it is only Navajo.  It is located in the
Northwestern part
	of the reservation so the young woman is a long way from home.  I
know of no
	pan-tribal religion.  Do you?  The Puebloans have very similar
religions but
	since they have at least 4 different languages interplay would be
difficult.
	Each Pueblo conducts its own ceremonies with many of the dances and
	ceremonies only being held at the specific Pueblo.

	"Navajo Mountain and Rainbow Bridge Religion" by Karl W Luckert
would give
	you a good intro to Navajo religion.

	Rick Seddon
	McIntosh, NM, USA
	-----Original Message-----
	From: Meyer Robert K GS-9 99 CES/CECT <[log in to unmask]>
	To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
	Date: Thursday, March 22, 2001 1:42 PM
	Subject: Rainbow Bridge religion (was: Dans le Rest...)


	>Hi Rick S,
	>
	>The only times I heard of a "Rainbow Bridge" was in context of
Nordic myth,
	>and of course the Ring Cycle which is based on it.  Is Rainbow
Bridge
	>religion exclusively Navajo, or is it some kind of pan-tribal
spirituality?
	>
	>Robert
	>
	> -----Original Message-----
	> From: Richard Seddon [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
	> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 8:22 AM
	> To: [log in to unmask]
	> Subject: Re: Dans le Restaurant and the Commedia
	>
	> Nancy:
	>
	> The Navajo prior to Spanish colonization were a stone age nomadic
	>people.
	> At what point in their absorbtion of the greater cultures
technology
	>do you
	> think we should protect their folk ways?  45 years ago when I
lived
	>on the
	> Navajo reservation,  the reservation Navajo was just beginning to
	>adopt the
	> truck as a mode of transportation.  Most Navajo women walked or
rode
	>in
	> horse drawn wagons.  The men walked or rode horseback.
Horse/wagon
	> technology  came  from the Spanish.  They were semi-nomadic using
3
	>homes in
	> a cycle throughout the year as they grazed their sheep.  A
	>technology and
	> folk way that they also got from the Spanish.  The cradle board
was
	>an
	> essential technology to that economy but was carried over from the
	>ancient
	> culture.  The point is that the Navajo that I remember with
fondness
	>and
	> nostalgia as "The Real Navajo" was a corrupted culture that had
been
	> corrupted in the 16th and 17th century by Spanish colonialism and
it
	>is the
	> most ancient of technologies that you would like to abolish.  The
	>young
	> Navajo woman I spoke of has Aunts who live in Denetah (the
	>reservation) but
	> she is uncomfortable around them.  They do not approve of much of
	>what she
	> believes concerning a woman's role and since she speaks no Navajo
	>find it
	> difficult to express their folkways to her.  Navajo does not
	>translate well
	> into English.  The time sense is totally wrong.   The folkways she
	>is
	> learning is of another mostly artifical culture,  that of the
cigar
	>strore
	> Indian, the Indian of Hollywood and AIM (the American Indian
	>Movement).  She
	> is a Christian,  her Aunts are not.  She has used a Christian
	>medicine man
	> (her words)  for counselling and feels uncomfortable with her
Aunts
	>who
	> practice the Rainbow Bridge religion.  I would hazard a guess that
	>her Aunts
	> would be ecstatic to teach her Navajo and no one from the greater
	>culture
	> ever interfered with that happening.  It is her choice and
continues
	>to be
	> her choice.  She could even attend classes at UNM, her alma mata,
	>and learn
	> it without moral lectures from her Aunts.
	>
	> What points of this culture do you propose to capture?   The
ancient
	>Navajo
	> was a warlike raider of sedentary people.  They were every bit as
	>violent as
	> the Apache and were feared more than the Apache by the Pueblos.
	>That Navajo
	> was not a sedentary agriculturalist.  As part of their economy
they
	>would
	> plant a crop and then leave it returning only for harvest if there
	>was one.
	> They were hunter/gatherers who basically might gathered a crop of
	>their own
	> or Puebloan.  The Puebloans were their favorite prey for food and
	>slaves.
	> Since the greater American culture is one of law and order I don't
	>think the
	> ancient Navajo folkways would fare well
	>
	> BTW,  instead of a cradle board the young Navajo woman would use a
	>modern
	> portable carseat.  If she wanted to carry her child herself she
	>would use a
	> modern belly pack instead of a blanket wrapped into a tote.   A
	>further BTW,
	> the beautiful Navajo jewelry which is so valuable today was a
	>technology
	> given to the Navajo by the Spanish in an attempt to provide the
	>Navajo with
	> some other economy beside war raiding of the Puebloans who the
	>Spanish (dare
	> I say Hispanics or Latinos)  were trying to exploit in a much
	>different way.
	>
	> Rick Seddon
	> McIntosh, NM, USA
	> -----Original Message-----
	> From: Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]>
	> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
	> Date: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 9:51 PM
	> Subject: Re: Dans le Restaurant and the Commedia
	>
	>
	> Dear Rick,
	>
	> I agree with your main conclusion, which was, I think, my main
point
	> originally.  And although I have not at all studied the situation
of
	>the
	> Acadians in the same way, I live in Maine, where the largest
	>minority
	> except native Americans is Franco-American.  Many of my students
	>grew
	> up in French speaking homes and were forced to give it up.  I had
	>one who
	> told me in deep distress that she knew no French anymore but her
	>dreams
	> were in French, and asleep, she could understand.  I was not
saying
	> everyone else was angelic, only that the glorious triumphalism of
	>the
	> English language was pretty problematic.  So the fact that others
	>also did
	> horrible things is not at odds with what I said.  I also do not
	>think that
	> the
	> elimination of fleas and cradle boards logically entails the
	>concomitant
	> elimination of identity, language, culture, etc.,etc.  They really
	>might be
	> separable.
	>
	> Unfortunately I don't think lack of sensitivity is limited to the
	>17th and
	> 18th
	> century.  The 20th was about as brutal and insensitive as one
could
	>get
	> and had better guns.
	> Nancy
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	> Date sent:      Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:03:49 EST Send reply to:
	> [log in to unmask] From:           [log in to unmask] To:
	> [log in to unmask] Subject:        Re: Dans le Restaurant and
	>the
	> Commedia
	>
	> In a message dated 3/21/01 9:31:42 AM Eastern Standard Time,
	> [log in to unmask] writes:
	>
	>
	> > "The Story of English" was extremely well done, and I assume the
	>facts
	> > were pretty accurate, but the thesis it promoted was, in my
view,
	>very
	> > problematic.  The only section I could really evaluate was on
	>Scots (and
	> > to some extent Gaelic), and I found it infuriating in its
	>assumptions
	> > about the wonderful way English supplanted them.  It simply did
	>not
	> > happen that way nor was its priviliging welcomed.
	> >
	> The world seems to be moving towards an "international" culture or
	> monoculture, which is good in some ways and bad in others. I hope
	>we'll be
	> able to do this and still retain the best of each "minority"
culture
	>being
	> supplanted. I think, however, that it might be misleading to
	>politicize
	> this or paint it as a form of oppression.
	>
	> One has to allow people in any part of the world to live their
	>individual
	> lives in the way they want. If a Mayan Indian wants to go to
Bahrain
	>and
	> become a petrochemical engineer, that's the person's right, even
	>though it
	> might remove him or her from the mainstream of Mayan culture. If
	>people in
	> Russia or China like fast food, and are willing to stand in line
at
	>a
	> McDonald's restaurant, that's their right, even though I'm sure
	>there are
	> other people in China and Russia (and plenty of Americans) who
hate
	>the
	> idea of fast food.
	>
	> There's no alternative to this kind of dissemination that isn't
	>oppressive
	> in itself, besides being completely unworkable. The UN can't just
	>order
	> everyone in the world to live in the "traditional" way their
	>ancestors
	> did, and speak the ancestral language. A significant number of
	>people want
	> to make other choices, and it's been quite a while since most
people
	>in
	> the West seriously followed the ancestral ways. Sure there are
	>peasants in
	> Turkey still baking bread in stone ovens. But there are also
people
	>in
	> Istanbul living much as one might live in any large city anywhere.
	>And we
	> don't need to necessarily see the city dwellers as traitors to any
	> nationalist or ethnic cause.
	>
	> English seems to be becoming, so to speak, the lingua franca of
the
	> Internet. The advantage of a worldwide language (remember
	>Esperanto!) is
	> that it fosters communication. Certainly one can find unfairness
in
	> whatever language it happens to be, just as one can find
unfairness
	>in
	> modern businesses all over the world having to use such
	>untraditional
	> tools as computers, telephones, and cash registers. But I do think
	>it's an
	> unstoppable trend, and the world in the end forgets the
unfairness.
	>The
	> trend is judged by its results. I'm not saying this is right or
	>wrong.
	> Just that I don't see any way of addressing what you perceive as
	> oppression without instituting a greater oppression--the tyranny
of
	>the
	> group.  That's the "stay with your own kind" (and preserve the
	>culture)
	> theory which has already been tried, and not everyone liked the
	>results.
	>
	> pat
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>