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Rick,

You're bringing up all the important points, revolving around the locus that 
cultures aren't monolithic. They change.

I think what I noticed first was how the art got loused up. Tribal peoples, 
especially in Latin America and Africa, tend to be terrific craftsman, or at 
least were originally. The skills hang on longer in rural areas, just as one 
can find American rural craftsmen today who still practice supposedly "lost" 
skills like recaning chairs by hand. 

One factor in the steady decline of craftsmanship is well-meaning importers 
--and even government agencies--who try to teach tribal people "what 
sells"and how to adapt mass-production methods to their work. The net result 
is the production of junk for tourists. There's a big difference, as I'm sure 
you know, between Navaho jewelry made in the 1920s and earlier and what's 
being made today. 

pat

In a message dated 3/22/01 11:25:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] 
writes:


> Subj:Re: Dans le Restaurant and the Commedia
> Date:3/22/01 11:25:30 AM Eastern Standard Time
> From:    [log in to unmask] (Richard Seddon)
> Sender:    [log in to unmask]
> Reply-to: <A HREF="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>
> To:    [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nancy:
> 
> The Navajo prior to Spanish colonization were a stone age nomadic people.
> At what point in their absorbtion of the greater cultures technology do you
> think we should protect their folk ways?  45 years ago when I lived on the
> Navajo reservation,  the reservation Navajo was just beginning to adopt the
> truck as a mode of transportation.  Most Navajo women walked or rode in
> horse drawn wagons.  The men walked or rode horseback.  Horse/wagon
> technology  came  from the Spanish.  They were semi-nomadic using 3 homes in
> a cycle throughout the year as they grazed their sheep.  A technology and
> folk way that they also got from the Spanish.  The cradle board was an
> essential technology to that economy but was carried over from the ancient
> culture.  The point is that the Navajo that I remember with fondness and
> nostalgia as "The Real Navajo" was a corrupted culture that had been
> corrupted in the 16th and 17th century by Spanish colonialism and it is the
> most ancient of technologies that you would like to abolish.  The young
> Navajo woman I spoke of has Aunts who live in Denetah (the reservation) but
> she is uncomfortable around them.  They do not approve of much of what she
> believes concerning a woman's role and since she speaks no Navajo find it
> difficult to express their folkways to her.  Navajo does not translate well
> into English.  The time sense is totally wrong.   The folkways she is
> learning is of another mostly artifical culture,  that of the cigar strore
> Indian, the Indian of Hollywood and AIM (the American Indian Movement).  She
> is a Christian,  her Aunts are not.  She has used a Christian medicine man
> (her words)  for counselling and feels uncomfortable with her Aunts who
> practice the Rainbow Bridge religion.  I would hazard a guess that her Aunts
> would be ecstatic to teach her Navajo and no one from the greater culture
> ever interfered with that happening.  It is her choice and continues to be
> her choice.  She could even attend classes at UNM, her alma mata, and learn
> it without moral lectures from her Aunts.
> 
> What points of this culture do you propose to capture?   The ancient Navajo
> was a warlike raider of sedentary people.  They were every bit as violent as
> the Apache and were feared more than the Apache by the Pueblos.  That Navajo
> was not a sedentary agriculturalist.  As part of their economy they would
> plant a crop and then leave it returning only for harvest if there was one.
> They were hunter/gatherers who basically might gathered a crop of their own
> or Puebloan.  The Puebloans were their favorite prey for food and slaves.
> Since the greater American culture is one of law and order I don't think the
> ancient Navajo folkways would fare well
> 
> BTW,  instead of a cradle board the young Navajo woman would use a modern
> portable carseat.  If she wanted to carry her child herself she would use a
> modern belly pack instead of a blanket wrapped into a tote.   A further BTW,
> the beautiful Navajo jewelry which is so valuable today was a technology
> given to the Navajo by the Spanish in an attempt to provide the Navajo with
> some other economy beside war raiding of the Puebloans who the Spanish (dare
> I say Hispanics or Latinos)  were trying to exploit in a much different way.
> 
> Rick Seddon
> McIntosh, NM, USA
> 

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial Narrow" LANG="0"><B>Rick,
<BR>
<BR>You're bringing up all the important points, revolving around the locus that 
<BR>cultures aren't monolithic. They change.
<BR>
<BR>I think what I noticed first was how the art got loused up. Tribal peoples, 
<BR>especially in Latin America and Africa, tend to be terrific craftsman, or at 
<BR>least were originally. The skills hang on longer in rural areas, just as one 
<BR>can find American rural craftsmen today who still practice supposedly "lost" 
<BR>skills like recaning chairs by hand. 
<BR>
<BR>One factor in the steady decline of craftsmanship is well-meaning importers 
<BR>--and even government agencies--who try to teach tribal people "what 
<BR>sells"and how to adapt mass-production methods to their work. The net result 
<BR>is the production of junk for tourists. There's a big difference, as I'm sure 
<BR>you know, between Navaho jewelry made in the 1920s and earlier and what's 
<BR>being made today. 
<BR>
<BR>pat
<BR>
<BR>In a message dated 3/22/01 11:25:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] 
<BR>writes:
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Subj:<B>Re: Dans le Restaurant and the Commedia</B>
<BR>Date:3/22/01 11:25:30 AM Eastern Standard Time
<BR>From: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[log in to unmask] (Richard Seddon)
<BR>Sender: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[log in to unmask]
<BR>Reply-to: <A HREF="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>
<BR>To: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[log in to unmask]
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Nancy:
<BR>
<BR>The Navajo prior to Spanish colonization were a stone age nomadic people.
<BR>At what point in their absorbtion of the greater cultures technology do you
<BR>think we should protect their folk ways? &nbsp;45 years ago when I lived on the
<BR>Navajo reservation, &nbsp;the reservation Navajo was just beginning to adopt the
<BR>truck as a mode of transportation. &nbsp;Most Navajo women walked or rode in
<BR>horse drawn wagons. &nbsp;The men walked or rode horseback. &nbsp;Horse/wagon
<BR>technology &nbsp;came &nbsp;from the Spanish. &nbsp;They were semi-nomadic using 3 homes in
<BR>a cycle throughout the year as they grazed their sheep. &nbsp;A technology and
<BR>folk way that they also got from the Spanish. &nbsp;The cradle board was an
<BR>essential technology to that economy but was carried over from the ancient
<BR>culture. &nbsp;The point is that the Navajo that I remember with fondness and
<BR>nostalgia as "The Real Navajo" was a corrupted culture that had been
<BR>corrupted in the 16th and 17th century by Spanish colonialism and it is the
<BR>most ancient of technologies that you would like to abolish. &nbsp;The young
<BR>Navajo woman I spoke of has Aunts who live in Denetah (the reservation) but
<BR>she is uncomfortable around them. &nbsp;They do not approve of much of what she
<BR>believes concerning a woman's role and since she speaks no Navajo find it
<BR>difficult to express their folkways to her. &nbsp;Navajo does not translate well
<BR>into English. &nbsp;The time sense is totally wrong. &nbsp;&nbsp;The folkways she is
<BR>learning is of another mostly artifical culture, &nbsp;that of the cigar strore
<BR>Indian, the Indian of Hollywood and AIM (the American Indian Movement). &nbsp;She
<BR>is a Christian, &nbsp;her Aunts are not. &nbsp;She has used a Christian medicine man
<BR>(her words) &nbsp;for counselling and feels uncomfortable with her Aunts who
<BR>practice the Rainbow Bridge religion. &nbsp;I would hazard a guess that her Aunts
<BR>would be ecstatic to teach her Navajo and no one from the greater culture
<BR>ever interfered with that happening. &nbsp;It is her choice and continues to be
<BR>her choice. &nbsp;She could even attend classes at UNM, her alma mata, and learn
<BR>it without moral lectures from her Aunts.
<BR>
<BR>What points of this culture do you propose to capture? &nbsp;&nbsp;The ancient Navajo
<BR>was a warlike raider of sedentary people. &nbsp;They were every bit as violent as
<BR>the Apache and were feared more than the Apache by the Pueblos. &nbsp;That Navajo
<BR>was not a sedentary agriculturalist. &nbsp;As part of their economy they would
<BR>plant a crop and then leave it returning only for harvest if there was one.
<BR>They were hunter/gatherers who basically might gathered a crop of their own
<BR>or Puebloan. &nbsp;The Puebloans were their favorite prey for food and slaves.
<BR>Since the greater American culture is one of law and order I don't think the
<BR>ancient Navajo folkways would fare well
<BR>
<BR>BTW, &nbsp;instead of a cradle board the young Navajo woman would use a modern
<BR>portable carseat. &nbsp;If she wanted to carry her child herself she would use a
<BR>modern belly pack instead of a blanket wrapped into a tote. &nbsp;&nbsp;A further BTW,
<BR>the beautiful Navajo jewelry which is so valuable today was a technology
<BR>given to the Navajo by the Spanish in an attempt to provide the Navajo with
<BR>some other economy beside war raiding of the Puebloans who the Spanish (dare
<BR>I say Hispanics or Latinos) &nbsp;were trying to exploit in a much different way.
<BR>
<BR>Rick Seddon
<BR>McIntosh, NM, USA
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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