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In a message dated 3/1/01 8:04:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[log in to unmask] writes:


> > Good thought abut Urania in Purgatorio.  Interestingly the "Temple
> > Classics" edition of "Purgatorio" that TSE carried in his pocket puts
> > that canticle thusly:
> > 
> > Now 'tis meet that Helicon for me stream forth
> >      and Urania aid me with her choir to set in verse
> >      things hard to conceive.
> > 
> > Note the last word "conceive" fits nicely into the context of your
> > reading.
> 
> 
> While the translation including the word "conceive" fits the context,
> I don't think the original nor other translations do.  I doubt that
> the Italian "pensar" is used or was used in any kind of way for
> physical conception.
> 
> 
> 
Rick Parker, 

Rick Seddon is to the point, and I should actually have checked out the 
Temple Classics translation. This is the edition Eliot used and recommended 
as "the best." So if one wants some take on what Eliot was reading when he 
read the Commedia, it's the TC edition that one wants to see, and it's 
pointless or a waste of time to be fiddle-faddling around with Mandlebaum or 
whatever someone thinks is a "better" translation.  

Sure check against Singleton, Grandgent, or whomever one wants, and I 
actually checked and compared the annotation in just about every translation 
I could find. But don't forget that the focal edition for studying Eliot is 
the edition he read and recommended himself, and that's the TC. If you look 
in the bilbiography for my book, you'll see that I've traced which edition of 
the TC would have been available at the time, and I don't see much sense in 
using anything else, at least not when studying Eliot.

The TC isn't on the internet, which makes things awkward. I usually do 
searches on an internet translation made recently by a professor at 
Stonybrook. Then one has to go back and find the same passage in the printed 
version of the TC. Certainly I've always done this in any paper or book to be 
published. But I cut corners in this case (laziness), and I'm grateful that  
Rick Seddon filled in the gap by showing us the lines in the right edition.

If we know the edition used by Eliot, what could possibly be the 
justification for using a different edition? I can understand your passion 
for wanting to do everything on the internet, because I too like the lazy 
fantasy of never getting out of one's chair. But the Internet isn't ready for 
that at this point, and may never be ready. Nancy is quite right that one has 
to use it with caution.

pat

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial Narrow" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 3/1/01 8:04:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
<BR>[log in to unmask] writes:
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">&gt; Good thought abut Urania in Purgatorio. &nbsp;Interestingly the "Temple
<BR>&gt; Classics" edition of "Purgatorio" that TSE carried in his pocket puts
<BR>&gt; that canticle thusly:
<BR>&gt; 
<BR>&gt; Now 'tis meet that Helicon for me stream forth
<BR>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and Urania aid me with her choir to set in verse
<BR>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;things hard to conceive.
<BR>&gt; 
<BR>&gt; Note the last word "conceive" fits nicely into the context of your
<BR>&gt; reading.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>While the translation including the word "conceive" fits the context,
<BR>I don't think the original nor other translations do. &nbsp;I doubt that
<BR>the Italian "pensar" is used or was used in any kind of way for
<BR>physical conception.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial Narrow" LANG="0"><B>Rick Parker, 
<BR>
<BR>Rick Seddon is to the point, and I should actually have checked out the 
<BR>Temple Classics translation. This is the edition Eliot used and recommended 
<BR>as "the best." So if one wants some take on what Eliot was reading when he 
<BR>read the Commedia, it's the TC edition that one wants to see, and it's 
<BR>pointless or a waste of time to be fiddle-faddling around with Mandlebaum or 
<BR>whatever someone thinks is a "better" translation. &nbsp;
<BR>
<BR>Sure check against Singleton, Grandgent, or whomever one wants, and I 
<BR>actually checked and compared the annotation in just about every translation 
<BR>I could find. But don't forget that the focal edition for studying Eliot is 
<BR>the edition he read and recommended himself, and that's the TC. If you look 
<BR>in the bilbiography for my book, you'll see that I've traced which edition of 
<BR>the TC would have been available at the time, and I don't see much sense in 
<BR>using anything else, at least not when studying Eliot.
<BR>
<BR>The TC isn't on the internet, which makes things awkward. I usually do 
<BR>searches on an internet translation made recently by a professor at 
<BR>Stonybrook. Then one has to go back and find the same passage in the printed 
<BR>version of the TC. Certainly I've always done this in any paper or book to be 
<BR>published. But I cut corners in this case (laziness), and I'm grateful that &nbsp;
<BR>Rick Seddon filled in the gap by showing us the lines in the right edition.
<BR>
<BR>If we know the edition used by Eliot, what could possibly be the 
<BR>justification for using a different edition? I can understand your passion 
<BR>for wanting to do everything on the internet, because I too like the lazy 
<BR>fantasy of never getting out of one's chair. But the Internet isn't ready for 
<BR>that at this point, and may never be ready. Nancy is quite right that one has 
<BR>to use it with caution.
<BR>
<BR>pat</B></FONT></HTML>

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