Words are never "merely words." They can kill, as the history of the
twentieth century should teach us. "Jude." "Nigger." "fill in the
We agree on kicking dogs--or any innocent sentient creatures for me.
Yes, it's despicable.
>>> Kate Nichols 12/21/14 9:55 PM >>>
I agree with Nancy that kicking a dog is not a human failing. It is a
despicable act. I could never overlook it. Spurr's emails, however
and ignorant, are still merely words.
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 9:05 PM, Kate Nichols
> I view it as you do for the most part, but I believe that many men
> such opinions, although many of the younger ones don't express them
> On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 8:34 PM, Nancy Gish wrote:
>> The irony of this, of course, is that the only thing they "protect"
>> women from is other men. I'm not sure how you view this fact that you
>> state, but a history of great women makes the idea that they can only
>> wives and mother simply silly. That men may think does not make it
>> >>> Kate Nichols 12/21/14 6:04 PM >>>
>> There are some men who are not racist at all, who may even be liberal
>> political notions, but who will always think that women are meant to
>> wives and mothers. I'm not talking about those men who put down
>> call them whores and hos such garbage, but men who put women on
>> ground in some aspects and who would protect them.
>> On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 5:04 PM, Nancy Gish wrote:
>> > Well, one does not inhale second-hand gay--even if it mattered.
>> > I'm feeling more than ambivalent about Peter's wish that he did not
>> > his hero's moral failings. One can, of course, acknowledge good
>> > in someone who also had major failings. Pound was a Fascist, but
>> > was not teaching it to children or college students. And either way
>> > does not change the value of his poetry. If anyone turned to
>> > because of his broadcasts, it might alter any judgment.
>> > But that young woman who deserved the top prize in pathology
>> > did not get it, and she was hurt by his bigotry. That is a serious
>> > difference. So, too, was the young gay man who, I gather, lost his
>> > These actions do have major impact. Think of Alan Turling who was a
>> > major factor in winning WWII but hounded out of work and destroyed:
>> > "In 1952, Turing was arrested and tried for homosexuality, then a
>> > criminal offence. To avoid prison, he accepted injections of
>> > for a year, which were intended to neutralise his libido. In that
>> > homosexuals were considered a security risk as they were open to
>> > blackmail. Turing's security clearance was withdrawn, meaning he
>> > no longer work for GCHQ, the post-war successor to Bletchley Park.
>> > He committed suicide on 7 June, 1954."
>> > Is total relativism really ok--any more than total "thought
>> > when prejudice can do that?
>> > I'm not suggesting an answer--it's a question.
>> > Nancy
>> > >>> Kate Nichols 12/21/14 4:17 PM >>>
>> > My Professor in college who taught the Modernist class was an open
>> > homosexual and smoked cigarettes in the classroom. Amusing that in
>> > today's
>> > society, his being gay would not matter at all and would not be
>> > against him, but he may be fired for smoking cigarettes in the
>> > classroom.
>> > Kate of Florida
>> > On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 3:49 PM, Peter Dillane
>> > wrote:
>> > > Hi Folks,
>> > >
>> > > I seem to be tainted with cynicism and moral relativism in this
>> > company
>> > > where everyone has such concern about the issues. Barry Spurr is
>> > > political player not some dear little thing with wide eyes
>> > hunted
>> > > down. He was engaged in the political game at the big end of town
>> > in
>> > > this country that is a brutally combative polar dialectic without
>> > nuance.>> > > the score. The past thirty years in this country one or the other
>> > of
>> > > cultural politics has used its time in power to end the careers
>> > > other side. Neither has the moral call on track record. He had a
>> > government
>> > > role which will deprive others of their careers perhaps for good.
>> > not
>> > > particularly partisan in this (probably I was on his side in
>> > it
>> > > )but my point is that this is not the story of an ingenue
>> > > crushed on the wheel. I think it does matter that he has said
>> > things.
>> > > I don’t think the public interest argument is a strong
>> > for
>> > > disseminating these private conversations although someone who
>> > cared
>> > > for the national curriculum and was opposed to his position would
>> > it
>> > > more substantial as a justification for publishing.
>> > >
>> > > For the record i> > anyone much cares, there’s been a tiny hue
>> cry really. He
>> > resigned
>> > > and was not dismissed. I suppose he has been pushed but the
>> > fact is
>> > > that he jumped and his University has chosen not to say much at
>> > His
>> > > political masters have said next to nothing but they did not back
>> > up.
>> > > Part of what he was reported to have said had a tilt at them so
>> > be a
>> > > bit friendless. The racist comments were not particularly vile
>> > > misogynist ones were. Reading between the lines he has accepted a
>> > pretty
>> > > lame settlement with the publishers on the proviso they publish
>> > more so
>> > > there must be more - and worse. It doesn’t matter that these
>> > private,
>> > > nor that he should have known about the porous cyber conduit he
>> > using.
>> > > What is is. He chose at a good age with a life of profession> I
>> > taught by a terrific chap. a professor of Pathology. Erudite,
>> > > astute, lovely educational technique, approachable and charming.
>> > was
>> > > a prize for the top of the year in Pathology. This prize was more
>> > > itself because it opened doors in your career path. A friend of
>> > worked
>> > > in the next room to that in which the prize was being discussed
>> > > professors one year and heard my hero professor say “Clearly the
>> > > student on performance is this young woman, but she is a young
>> > and it
>> > > will be wasted on her.” I still recall some of his lectures and
>> > broader
>> > > moral stands on issues as very worthy. I do wish I could have
>> > > untainted by the knowledge of what is.
>> > >
>> > > On another occasion I was talking to a lecturer in the English
>> > Department
>> > > where I studied in the 1970s and said I very much admired the
>> > > professor who could recite great mountains of Njal’s saga or
>> > D’Arthur
>> > > from heart and sometimes he became teary during these
>> > what
>> > > a terrific person he was and so on. She said to me “Mmm yes I
>> > does
>> > > have some engaging features but during the 50s he disposed of one
>> > academic
>> > > who was giving trouble by recording a conversation in which the
>> > > admitted to being homosexual." I wish I didn’t know that bit too.
>> > >
>> > > By the way Jim you mentioned that you hoped this wouldn’t tarnish
>> > > Australia. Mate the way we are treating refugees on the high seas
>> > our
>> > > North and our International non contribution to battling climate
>> > change are
>> > > hard acts to follow in the tarnishing department.
>> > >
>> > > Cheers Folks
>> > >
>> > > Pete
>> > --
>> > Karen "Kate" Nichols
>> > Premier Florida Realty of SWFL
>> > C: 239-849-3064
>> > F: 239-463-4826
>> > Search SW Florida homes
>> Karen "Kate" Nichols
>> Premier Florida Re> Premier Florida Realty of SWFL
> C: 239-849-3064
> F: 239-463-4826
> Search SW Florida homes
Karen "Kate" Nichols
Premier Florida Realty of SWFL
Search SW Florida homes