Has there ever been a study of Arnold & Eliot. Like other writers & critics
of the early & mid-century, Eliot _tried_ (if I'm remembering correctly) to
distance himself from Arnold but I think they share a great deal in common.

Carrol


> -----Original Message-----
> From: T. S. Eliot Discussion forum. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> Behalf Of Nancy Gish
> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:49 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: TWL as ground.
>
> Because Dido was Phoenician, and there had been a long passage on Dido
> and Aeneas, and because Carthage was first defeated at sea by Rome in the
> battle at Mylae. Among many other reasons.
> Nancy
>
> >>> P 08/20/13 11:44 PM >>>
> Why Phoenician? He is another figure in the ground, but why Phoenician?
> Why not Egyptian? Greek? Roman?
>
> Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
> fact and artifact: vis-a-vis the postulate of the fugue
>
>
> "Here, said she, is your card, the drowned Phoenician Sailor."
>
>
> Well, it may as well be the poet who is "drowned" here, vis-a-vis his
nervous
> breakdown, passing into a fugue in which state the "unconscious" wakes up
> to a mode of recollection and recreation. And even though there is always
a
> correlation between "the man who suffers and the mind which creates,"
>
>
> Nothing of him that doth fade
> But doth suffer a sea-change
> Into something rich and strange.
>
>
> CR
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> Now this fugue postulate is corroborated by what the poet himself observed
> vis-a-vis the wasteland that was his first marriage: "To her the marriage
> brought no happiness to me it brought the state of mind out of which came
> The Waste Land." It correlates "the man who suffers and the mind which
> creates."
>
> TWL as ground, indeed, absolutely!
>
> CR
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> And yet I must compliment Peter Montgomery for this wonderful insight --
> a state of fugue in which the 'unconscious' is free to cull up fragments
> from its stock of memories and put them in an order that suits it best.
> When the poet recovers from that state he makes what he can of
> what the 'unconscious' has expressed.
>
>
> CR
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> No, it does not leave to the reader to make whatever he/she would make of
> it. There are enough signposts.
>
> Of course, by 'madness' I meant whatever form it takes.
>
> CR
>
>
> On Aug 19, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
> There is a method to this madness, if madness it be.
> It is just not random ramshackle curiosity shop.
> It is a work of art.
>
> CR
>
> On Aug 19, 2013, at 9:23 PM, P <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>
> I'm not sure how relevant mental health analysis actually
is.
> This is more of a fragmented cultures rammed together and laid out for
> whatever the reader synthesises.
> Cheers,
> P.
>
>