LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for TSE Archives


TSE Archives

TSE Archives


TSE@PO.MISSOURI.EDU


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

TSE Home

TSE Home

TSE  November 2012

TSE November 2012

Subject:

Re: OT (sort of) Philology. Sort of.

From:

Carrol Cox <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

T. S. Eliot Discussion forum.

Date:

Thu, 15 Nov 2012 10:17:01 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (172 lines)

I do wonder how pm can look at himself in the mirror. A very strange &
repellant personality. I stopped reading him some time ago except for
occasional peeks, but in all his posts I've ever read only one or two
contained an actual argument; the rest were utterly pointless asides. What
makes such a person tick? And why isn't it embarrassing to send so many
posts all without content!

Carrol

> -----Original Message-----
> From: T. S. Eliot Discussion forum. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
Of
> Nancy Gish
> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 12:39 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: OT (sort of) Philology. Sort of.
> 
> A problem in your claim: it is inaccurate. I don't have a problem except
with
> inaccurate and/or misleading pronouncements. And it simply goes back to
the
> term "phenomenal" (because of Latin and several modern languages), which
it
> was not. Clearly very good and used in his poetry (though you have not
said how)
> but hardly phenomenal.
> 
> His poetry, regardless of the language, is brilliant in my view--since I
would hardly
> spend much of my life on it otherwise, but there are others equally or
more so--to
> use his criteria, Dante and Shakespeare. I would add Yeats and MacDiarmid
and
> Moore in his time and earlier Dickinson.
> N
> 
> >>> P 11/14/12 1:29 AM >>>
> Your problem, not mine.
> P.
> 
> Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> 
> It was not my claim or my issue: it was yours. I only pointed out that
what you
> said was unfounded. That does not include any requirement that I discuss
it. So if
> you have something to say that is founded on specific material, by all
means do
> so. I'm speaking about it because this is a discussion list, and others
read it, and
> your point was simply not valid. I do not have an interest in offering an
alternative
> just because I note a problem
> N
> 
> 
> >>> P 11/13/12 10:01 PM >>>
> More stating of the obvious without furthering the discussion. If you
accept that
> Eliot was multilingual and that it had its own unique effect on his work,
why not
> suggest some of the ways that happened rather than trying to take my words
into
> directions to which they were obviously not intended. Or do you have
nothing to
> say about how how his unique blend of languages (others may have had
exactly
> the same languages, but the blends of each of them would be quite
different)
> affected his work. If so, why are you continuing to kibbitz?
> P.
> 
> Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, "peculiarly his own" is by definition comparative. It cannot,
linguistically,
> have meaning separate from others.
> 
> So if you want to say something about Eliot's linguistic background--in
itself--or
> use that has some explanatory or illuminatory value, by all means, do so.
And of
> course that has to mean what is individual and/or "phenomenal" as opposed
to
> simply multi-lingual.
> Cheers,
> Nancy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>> P 11/13/12 7:53 PM >>>
> I didn't say anything about any other writers Nancy. Why bring them in
when it is
> so obvious that many writers were/are/will be polyglots.
> 
> It would be nice if we could focus on what Eliot's linguistic background
did for his
> poetry besides the very obvious use of words and lines from other
languages. It
> would be a way of actually being on topic!
> P.
> 
> Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> 
> Well, read Hope Mirlees's poem, Paris--written before TWL and both French
and
> English. Or Read MacDiarmid's A Drunk Man Looks at the Thistle; he also
used
> many languages. Eliot's own way of using many languages may be his own,
but
> using them is not.
> Cheers,
> Nancy
> 
> 
> >>> P 11/13/12 4:40 PM >>>
> My point was that he was able to bring this enviable skill to bear on his
poetry. It
> added a depth and richness that were peculiarly his own.
> P.
> 
> Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> 
> Unless you have never known many people who have great facility with
language,
> and many do, I do not understand this. There is no marvel at all--he knew
Latin
> and several modern languages: I don't but many do.
> Nancy
> 
> 
> >>> Chokh Raj 11/13/12 10:40 AM >>>
> 
> That facility and through that facility getting at the essence of things.
> Thus, for instance, not merely learning Sanskrit but through it
> getting at the heart of ancient Indian wisdom.
> The marvel ceases not.
> 
> CR
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>;
> To: <[log in to unmask]>;
> Subject: OT (sort of) Philology. Sort of.
> Sent: Mon, Nov 12, 2012 8:35:53 AM
> 
> 
> Mark Twain once said, "My philological studies have satisfied me that a
gifted
> person ought to learn English (barring spelling and pronouncing) in thirty
hours,
> French in thirty days, and German in thirty years."
> 
> Eliot seems to have learned them all, all at once, not to mention Latin
and
> Sanskrit.
> 
> I don't recall our having discussed Eliot's facility with language, which
it seems to
> me to have been quite phenomenal and one of the things that makes his work
so
> incredibly attractive. I know it is gauche on this list to say nice things
about Eliot,
> but there it is. I've done it and I'm very glad.
> 

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
March 1996
February 1996
January 1996
December 1995
November 1995

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



PO.MISSOURI.EDU

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager