I can't read minds & have no idea what p's or cr's own conception of his
purposes are. But the impression their posted bits give is that they have no
interest in Eliot's poetry but for some obscure reason want to add up points
for the man Eliot. Why this makes a difference is not clear to me. But since
their posts show no interest in the poetry it is pointless to respond to
them by talking about the poetry. 

Note that cr is talking NOT about Eliot's poetry but merely asserting that
there existed a man in the early 20th-c with a "sharp and inquisitive mind."
This is a sort of mental masturbation having no connection with the poems
Eliot left us. Sharp and inquisitive minds are a dime a dozen. It can be
said of hundreds of millions of people.

Carrol

> -----Original Message-----
> From: T. S. Eliot Discussion forum. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
Of
> Nancy Gish
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 9:28 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Eliot's Facility with Language
> 
> Rick is on target. There is a new book out called Babel no More; I have
not gotten
> it yet, but it is about polyglots--people who have genuinely phenomomenal
ability
> with language. One example is a man who spoke 72 languages. Eliot was not
a
> polyglot: he knew Latin and several modern languages. That is not really
> uncommon in very educated people. And mixing language in poetry is also
> common. Eliot used the tactic for his own purposes, as do many many poets
and
> others. Read Joyce; read Pound; read MacDiarmid's In Memoriam James Joyce;
> read Hope Mirlees's "Paris." Read Auden and consider his Anglo Saxon
syntax and
> words like "lonely as fell on chat." Read many Scots who mix Scots and
English
> and sometimes Gaelic. Read Shakespeare. What is the point here?
> 
> When any intelligent, sensitive person learns another language, it is an
entry into
> a new and different world; this is not at all special in Eliot or unusual
for anyone
> who is even bilingual.
> 
> This tells us nothing about his work unless someone can make some genuine,
> serious example of what is distinctive or even special about Eliot's
mixing of
> languages, which no one has so far done.  It would, in fact, be
interesting if
> someone could show that as a special and revealing case. But even the end
of
> TWL is based on what Kyd puts in Hieronymo's play. If there is some
profound
> need to idealize Eliot, why not discuss what he is truly brilliant at,
like his
> musicality or his imagery? Or else examine and analyze any example of
> something that can be shown to be a special/unique poetic use of
polyglottery. I
> can show it in Lochhead; David Crystal has shown it in Shakespeare. So can
> anyone show it in Eliot?
> Nancy
> 
> 
> >>> Chokh Raj 11/16/12 9:29 PM >>>
> 
> You'll excuse me, Rickard, but IMHO, when a sharp and perceptive mind like
> Eliot's comes into contact with another language, be it Greek, Latin,
French,
> German, Sanskrit or Pali, it is not just a language per se but through
that medium
> an art, a culture, a way of life that informs his creative mind. He
imbibes as well
> the rhythms of that language, the syntax and structure of its thought, as
well as
> its vision of life. Surely it affects in many subtle ways his music of
poetry. I
> wonder in how many subtle ways Eliot's poetry is informed by such
influences.
> 
> Regards,
> CR
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: Rickard A. Parker <[log in to unmask]>;
> To: <[log in to unmask]>;
> Subject: Re: Eliot's Facility with Language
> Sent: Fri, Nov 16, 2012 12:52:33 PM
> 
> 
> I've been thinking but I haven't come up with any way the Eliot's facility
> with foreign languages actually helped his writing poetry in English.
> 
> As for his use of the foreign phrases though he often combined several
> languages rather close together. Mostly epigraphs but then there is the
> closing of TWL.  The quickest switch must be in the later dedication to
> Verdenal where he has English and French in the first line and then goes
on
> to a quotation from Dante in the Italian.
> 
> It seems to me to the by using the languages so close together E. was
> striving to show a universality in life.
> 
> Regards,
>   Rick Parker
>