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GLOBAL-L  August 2011

GLOBAL-L August 2011

Subject:

Re: Project Veritas

From:

HUNTER Mark <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Tue, 2 Aug 2011 13:36:52 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

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text/plain (184 lines)

Yup, I would sue O'Keefe if he did to me what he did to NPR.
A quote from Julian Assange: getting citizen journalists to write stories from Wikileaks files is "like pushing shit uphill."

Mark Lee Hunter
Adjunct Professor and Senior Research Fellow, INSEAD
Docteur en Sciences de l'Information de l'Université de Paris 2
Portable: (+33) [0]6 27 81 00 87




-----Original Message-----
From: Drew Sullivan [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tue 02/08/2011 12:34
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [GLOBAL-L] Project Veritas
 
No one can deny the contribution of citizen journalists but don't many of them simply report their biases and opinions as well?  

 

The examples always used to promote citizen journalists are always they same:  they are just eye witnesses who report a particular event independently of the media because media was either not there and couldn't be there.  They reach fame in some cases because the media writes about them although not always. They are best when they report what they see.  

 

When you ask them to analyze news, report indepth, uncover that which is covered or be a gatekeeper of information, they are considerably less successful because many fall into traps of bias, inaccurate information, etc.  While I am not against citizen journalism and actually support it, in our enthusiasm for it we often overlook its many problems. 

 

I know few investigative citizen journalists like OKeefe but more will follow and they will make the same mistakes OKeefe does.  It's basically starting investigative journalism from scratch without the training, ethical discussions or learned lessons.  While they have the right to do it, I would expect that lawsuits and other problems will limit their growth.  

 

 

From: Dwight Hines [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 12:15 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [GLOBAL-L] Project Veritas

ot

No, I disagree.  Citizen-journalists have improved the statistics by reporting on things that were ignored, reporting with different biases, and taking traditional media to task for their familiarity with who they are covering.
There's a huge difference in entrapping or tricking people to being honest and upfront with them.   Mainstream media, on the whole, has done a pretty good job in covering the differernt elephants in the US, but they are human.

The more people looking at the elephant, the better we will understand what she is and what keeps him or her healthy, no matter what her color or accent or beliefs or bank accounts.

Maybe Brant was just teasing us by leaving out the 'in vino" part of the quote.



Dwight Hines
IndyMedia



On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 1:44 AM, Drew Sullivan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

His methods and justification are not so different from some journalists I have known. There is, unfortunately, an inevitability about this approach.   We will always try to understand what people really think and this is the only way to get it.   I am not defending the approach but it is somewhat inevitable.  Hell, our mainstream media has done much worse with the UK pone hacking scandal.  And payment journalism, practiced by so many TV stations, is in many ways much worse, too. 

 

Standards are always hard to uphold.  As they increasingly lower themselves with more "citizen" journalists over the next decade, those that practice them will be more appreciated. 

 

 

 

From: Dwight Hines [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 9:25 PM


To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [GLOBAL-L] Project Veritas

 

I hope this man is not a member of IRE.   I also think his methods are terrible,  not just because of the absence of data other than from a case or two, but because I can't understand how he can lie and cheat and steal in the name of truth (Veritas).  

Dwight Hines
IndyMedia
Maine

On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 12:31 PM, HUNTER Mark <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Many sincere thanks for tracking this jerk.
Best to all,

Mark Lee Hunter
Adjunct Professor and Senior Research Fellow, INSEAD
Docteur en Sciences de l'Information de l'Université de Paris 2
Portable: (+33) [0]6 27 81 00 87 <tel:%28%2B33%29%20%5B0%5D6%2027%2081%2000%2087> 





-----Original Message-----
From: Brant Houston [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Mon 01/08/2011 18:08
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [GLOBAL-L] Project Veritas

There was an interesting story on Project Veritas and James O'Keefe
with comments from the academy on investigative reporting and
undercover work in investigative reporting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/31/magazine/stinger-james-okeefes-greatest-hits.html

It also reminded me of the use of DocumentCloud on the filing for
nonprofit status by Project Veritas.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/96774-project-veritas.html


--
Brant Houston
Knight Chair of Investigative Reporting
Journalism Department, College of Media
University of Illinois
810 S. Wright St.
Urbana, IL 61801
217-333-7554

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