If the Jew is Jesus, is he being anti-Semetic, or anti-Christian, or both?
P.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "DIana Manister" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: 'Gerontion' -- the dramatic arc


> Dear Ken,
> 
> The Jew bred in an estaminet is one of
> the most-often cited examples of Eliot's
> anti-Semitism, and the text you provided notes that Fresca comes from  
> Eliot's parody of Pope's Rape of the Lock, in which Eliot depicts  
> Fresca going to the loo -- another Jesus figure
> perhaps? Fraulein von Kulp's name is discussed in the text you linked  
> to as derogatory, suggesting her culpability.
> 
> I didn't invent these interpretations. Gerontion's narrator is holier- 
> than-thou
> while expressing disgust for most of the human race.
> 
> Diana
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPod
> 
> On Feb 26, 2010, at 4:15 PM, Ken Armstrong <[log in to unmask]>  
> wrote:
> 
> > Diana,
> >
> > Ah, read your post again and have to say no, I don't think you've  
> > got much more than the most surfacy surface parts of it. Again, it's  
> > a scene of communion,  "the jew" is Christ (the owner of the "house"  
> > i.e. the temple that the body is and the "house" that would have  
> > stained glass windows),  and there is no sneering to speak of.  To  
> > say you don't want to know the significance of the names is just an  
> > abbreviated way to say you don't want to know the  poem, and little  
> > stands in your way to that end. Why not just leave it alone?
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > Diana Manister wrote:
> >> Dear Ken,
> >>
> >> Interesting text -- thanks. I'm trying to
> >> like Gerontion's narrator, but find it difficult.
> >>
> >> He's such a prig. He doesn't show much Christian charity towards  
> >> others.
> >>
> >> And yes, reading the poem again I see
> >> that he's not taking ownership of his situation. Like Fitzgerald,  
> >> he waits for a blessing from above.
> >>
> >> What do you like about this narrator?
> >> Seriously. Don't you find him preachy
> >> and superior-sounding, ready to tell
> >> everyone how it is, while sneering at
> >> the Jew, Fresca and Fraulein von Kulp (culpable), among others?  
> >> He's not engaging at all. I don't want to know the significance of  
> >> all the names as I'm certain they demeaning.
> >>
> >> The nuns taught us that confession is
> >> worthless unless one tries to stop sinning, but this narrator goes  
> >> along
> >> displaying his disgust with most of humanity in an un-Christlike  
> >> manner,
> >> showing no contrition for it. How can he expect a blessing?
> >>
> >> Diana
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPod
> >>
> >> On Feb 26, 2010, at 11:07 AM, Ken Armstrong  
> >> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> DIana Manister wrote:
> >>>> Dear Peter,
> >>>>
> >>>> The poem's speaker seems to acknowledge his inadequacies as his  
> >>>> own, that is he is stuck because of his personal failure.
> >>> Not really. The poem's commands to the reader to "Think" include  
> >>> this one:
> >>>
> >>>     
> >>>     
> >>>     
> >>>                                                                    
> >>> Think
> >>>        44Neither fear nor courage saves us. Unnatural vices
> >>>        45Are fathered by our heroism.  Virtues
> >>>        46Are forced upon us by our impudent crimes.
> >>>        47 <http://rpo.library.utoronto.ca/poem/777.html#50>These  
> >>> tears are shaken from the wrath-bearing tree.
> >>>
> >>> The poem is the scene of communion and does specifically touch on  
> >>> what Peter notes. Neither fear nor courage saves us.
> >>>
> >>> Ken
> >>>
> >>
> >