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TSE  May 2007

TSE May 2007

Subject:

Re: Wikipedia

From:

Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

T. S. Eliot Discussion forum.

Date:

Mon, 28 May 2007 02:29:26 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (263 lines)

I'm sorry if my disagreement seems like a personal attack.
It is not. I do sometimes feel like there is no room for dis-
agreement, and that tends to be the kind of occasion against
which I react. I also must confess to a certain frustration as
to the lack of looking at things from a student's perspective.
Is the student's perspective not a legitimate subject for this list?

My point is a pedagogical one. I may well not be the world's best
teacher. I'm sure I'm nowhere near that, but I do have 40 years of
experience in dealing with first and second year students, and have
found far too frequently that they are treated as so much system
fodder, and so I have intervened for them on many occasions
because of that.

I prefer to deal with students where they are, not where anybody
would like them to be. I find that when I give them their ground,
they are much more likely to give me mine in return.

If students are involved with Wikipedia, then I use it to get them
involved with the subject of the class. It is easy enough to warn
them of the difficulties, and even to use bad info as an exercise for
them to correct.

One of the things about Wikipedia is  that it creates all kinds of learning
opportunities with which students can identify. Here is one simple
example; anyone who knows the progenitor of Shakespeare's sister
should, I hope, appreciate this reality, and it is not at all hard,
given Bloomsbury, to connect this with Eliot:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakespear's_Sister

From the Academy of Lagado,
P.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nancy Gish" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 6:48 AM
Subject: Re: Wikipedia


> This apparent attempt to make the issue about involvement and/or
> responsibility rather than accurate information makes no sense.  There
> are plenty of sources of accurate information, and effort in making
> mistakes won't mean the reader gets any.  What has it to do with change?
>  I can now get Project Muse, for example, and read articles.  That is
> change.  It is not some simple all change or cretinous resistance; it is
> a valid source or not.  If even the creator of wikipedia says college
> students should know better than to use it, why this non-sense?  It is
> just a red herring and has nothing to do with the issue.
> Nancy
>
> >>> Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]> 05/26/07 7:47 AM >>>
> Sounds good to me, but that responsible effort seems to go unrecognised
> by some. Change is difficult.
> P.
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Diana Manister
>   To: [log in to unmask]
>   Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 7:35 AM
>   Subject: Re: Wikipedia
>
>
>   As to Wikipedia, everything posted is vetted by a team of volunteers,
> usually the same day. I have seen them question and/or change obscure
> details in articles I've posted there on artists and writers, and was
> favorably impressed. They are especially useful for listing author's
> works, which either exist or do not; checking that is not difficult. But
> Wikipedia provides a up-to-date point of departure.
>
>   Diana
>
>   .
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
>     From:  Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]>
>     Reply-To:  "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
>     To:  [log in to unmask]
>     Subject:  Re: Wikipedia (WAS:Re: TSE and Bro. George Every, SSM
> Kelham, Notts., England)
>     Date:  Fri, 25 May 2007 08:33:56 -0400
>     The point, unfortunately, is not about speed but about the knowledge
> of
>     those who post.  They may as easily post greater mistakes as any
>     improvement.  Unless one already knows, one doesn't know from what
> they
>     say.
>     Nancy
>
>     >>> Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]> 05/25/07 4:03 AM >>>
>     If one looks at print encyclopedias these days, one may have paws
> for
>     thought. They have always been, at best, places to start, but these
>     days info changes so rapidly, only on-line encyc.s stand a chance of
>     being really reliable, and even that can be questioned. For the on
>     line addicted W. is at least a place to start, and credit even
> should
>     be given for improvements submitted to W. when further research
> leads
>     to better work, verification or discrediting. Such hound work is
>     attractive to the googlizers. It could motivate them.
>
>     Bottom line, don't dismiss it out of hand as a learning opportunity.
>
>     Cheers,
>     Peter
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: T. S. Eliot Discussion forum.
>     To: [log in to unmask]
>     Sent: 2007-May-24 8:52 PM
>     SSubject: Wikipedia (WAS:Re: TSE and Bro. George Every, SSM Kelham,
>     Notts., England)
>
>     I thought this might be useful regarding Wikipedia's accuracy:
>
> http://chronicle.com/wiredcampus/article/1328/wikipedia-founder-discoura
>     ges-academic-use-of-his-creation
>
>     It's a fairly good "gateway" to information, but it's not
> consistently
>     reliable. If the founder himself says any student who relies on
>     Wikipedia
>     deserves an "F", well...
>     Cheers
>     Jamorgan
>
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: "Nancy Gish" <[log in to unmask]>
>     To: <[log in to unmask]>
>     Sent: Weddnesday, May 23, 2007 10:21 AM
>     Subject: Re: TSE and Bro. George Every, SSM Kelham, Notts., England
>
>
>     >I think it useful to note that wikipedia is not reliable.  It is
> free
>     to
>     > anyone to post anything.  They can't even get Hugh MacDiarmid's
> name
>     > right, so I would not count on the information there.
>     > Cheers,
>     > Nancy
>     >
>     >>>> David   Boyd <[log in to unmask]> 05/23/07 12:32 PM >>>
>     >
>     > In a message dated 23/05/2007 16:19:46 GMT Daylight Time,
>     > [log in to unmask] writes:
>     >
>     > David Boyd <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>     >
>     > If anyone has any information at all about TSE's contacts with the
>     > Anglican
>     > monk, teacher, theologian and historian Bro. George Every of the
>     > Society of
>     > the Sacred Mission, Kelham, where TSE often spent spiritual
> retreats,
>     > I'd be
>     > most grateful to hear from them.
>     >
>     > Every 'jumped-ship' to the Roman Catholic faith in 1972 and spent
> the
>     > last
>     > 31 years of his life at Oscott Seminary in Birmingham and his work
> and
>     > his
>     > interest in Little Gidding and Ferrar is said to have inspired
> that
>     > particular
>     > 'Quartet'. Although his correspondence with TSE and with many
> other
>     > literary
>     > luminaries and the like must have been immense both in volume  and
>     > significance, little now seems to remain. Ackroyd mentions Kelham
> very
>     > briefly in his
>     > bio. but nothing I can see relating to Every personally, who  died
> as
>     > recently as
>     > 2003, aged 94.
>     >
>     > Regards
>     >
>     > David Boyd
>     > Seascale, Cumbria UK
>     >
>     >
>     > Please look up the following  links:
>     >
>     >
> _http://www.littlegiddingchurch.org.uk/lgchtmlfiles/lgpeople2.html_
>     >
> (http://www.littlegiddingchurch.org.uk/lgchtmlfiles/lgpeople2.html)
>     >
>     > _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Every_
>     > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Every)
>     >
>     >
>
> _http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article1069223.ece_
>     >
>     >
>
> (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article1069223.ece)
>     >
>     >
>     > I extracted them from Google by entering "TS  Eliot and George
> Every
>     > Kelham".
>     >
>     > Best,
>     > CR
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Many thanks, both CR and Diana - it's was material other than the
>     usual
>     >
>     > culprits which emerge from Google and like I was seeking, but
> 'Every'
>     > is an
>     > ubiquitous word to search-for unless modified by 'Kelham' or
> 'Eliot'
>     or
>     > similar.
>     >
>     > Regards
>     >
>     > David
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
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> Hotmail.
>
>
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>
>
>   No virus found in this incoming message.
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> 5/24/2007 4:01 PM
>
>
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4:01 PM
>

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