LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for TSE Archives


TSE Archives

TSE Archives


TSE@PO.MISSOURI.EDU


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

TSE Home

TSE Home

TSE  May 2007

TSE May 2007

Subject:

Re: We want you

From:

Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

T. S. Eliot Discussion forum.

Date:

Sun, 27 May 2007 13:41:36 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (85 lines)

Dear Diana,

First, this is not about me except to the extent that some members have
repeatedly sneered at me rather than what I say.  They do it to others
as well, so I would prefer to be left out of it as an individual.

Second, this is a discussion list; no, we can't leave anything "at
that."  It defeats whatever purpose there is in having discussions.  If
we are only announcing to each other what we like, the list has ceased
to exist as a forum anyway.

I did not snipe at you, and I certainly did not indulge in derision.  IF
I HAD,  I would say I'm sorry, but I never did.  I responded to what you
said.  That is not in any sense about you as a person.  I have never
said a word about you as a person, I don't even know you, and I have no
reason to make such remarks as, say, Peter constantly does about who is
open or who is not, etc.  To disagree with your insight is not to demean
it; it is to disagree with it.  I would think that truly demeaning a
view would be to consider it not worth answering.  To engage in a debate
on a topic is to respect it.  And I don't know where the line about
freshman theme came up:  I never used those words.  

But I have no responsibility--personal, intellectual, or social--to
agree with or affirm any view expressed here.  The claim that this is
not about writing a critical article seems to be a definition you have
asserted along with a claim that the function of the list is apparently
to express feelings and never debate.  That is not what I joined it for
and not what it once was and not what a list about a writer can be
limited to.  It is about what people want to discuss.  It is a forum.  I
don't think anyone gets to define it in exclusive ways.  My objection is
to ad hominem and ad feminem statements.  I certainly can't preclude
them, but I have decided to object to them openly.  

I also did not say or intend to say that scholars write poems, only that
scholars of poetry love them.  It is equally true that poets may not be
able to write criticism.  

But on the issue of whether statements are true or not, I see no
possible value or even acceptable reason for being "open"  as if
falsehood and truth are equal.  So my objection to wikipedia remains
because it has many untrue statements.  Liking it is not an answer to
that objection, and in a forum anyone may object.  
Cheers,
Nancy  

Nancy, some of us like Wikipedia, some of us do not. Can't we leave it
at that? 

And you are as guilty as any of sniping; when I observed that Eliot's
narrators over various poems developed faith through painful conflict
you demeaned an insight that was new to me  as an idea worthy only of a
freshman theme. I was not writing a theme, I was sharing my appreciation
for the dynamism of Eliot's work, his development of his narrator's
character, because a poem I am writing improved from that insight. I was
not submitting a proposal for a critical article. 

My simple exclamation of delight at discovering how to develop a
narrator's crisis and resolution through Eliot's example was met with
scholarly dirision, Scholars' interpretations are necessarily backed up
with citations, references, etc. while an artist will take use an
insight for making new art of his or her own, with perhaps no reference
to the other artist from whom he or she got the idea. 

Working artists do not need to back up their interpretation of another
artist if they are just stealing something from him. On this list, every
email is gone over as if it were a paper to be graded. Some of us are
not Eliot scholars, we are poets trying to make art, not write books
about Eliot. Artists learn technique and craft from the masters, a quite
different undertaking, probably using a different part of the brain from
that used in intellectual analysis. A scholar may appreciate and
describe every nuance of a great artist's style, but that will not
result in the scholar being able to write a fine poem. A great scholar
of poetry may write a fine poem, but not necessarily. I think of Clement
Greenberg, for example, a great twentieth-century art critic, who
produced no fine art of his own.

Probably we are all guilty of intolerance to a certain extent. Patience
with each other could only improve the atmosphere in the list. I greatly
value your contributions and I'm surely not alone in that. Why not do
what I do? Have a good sulk, refuse to participate in the list, and then
come back again. Diana



>>> Diana Manister <[log in to unmask]> 05/27/07 12:04 PM >>>

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
March 1996
February 1996
January 1996
December 1995
November 1995

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



PO.MISSOURI.EDU

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager