Yes, Peter that rose is often cited as a reference to the Paradiso. Eliot's
flower imagery includes the rose, hyacinth, goldenrod, lilac and many
others, often if not always indicating a psychic state. In "T.S. Eliot: The
American Strain" A.D. Moody traces specifically American flora and fauna in
Eliot's poems to determine the setting of the passages in which they occur.
"the rank ailanthus of the April dooryard" in "The Dry Salvages" is an
obvious referencing of Whitman's poem on Lincoln's death, "when lilacs last
in the dooryard bloom'd" and the allusion can give rise to many an
hermeneutic speculation on Eliot's relationship to America.
The Waste Land contained more distinctly American flora and fauna before
Pound's editing, but only the hermit thrush remains, according to Moody.
References to plants in the poems often occur as memories -- "The voice of
the hidden waterfall/And the children in the apple-tree" in Little Gidding
are likely his recollections of an American childhood. Yet this poem also
ends with a rose: "When the tongues of flame are in-folded/Into the crowned
knot of fire/And the fire and rose are one" -- a flower that grows
exceptionally well in Europe as well! The hyacinth and the lilac are part of
significant memories. So his flower imagery may serve as markers of times in
his life to which his lines refer, the rose integrating his experiences in
America and Europe into a psychological whole, as well as serving as a
symbol of spiritual enlightenment. Since his settings are largely urban,
images of nature are significant. Eliot said the only scenery that ever made
an impression on him was in Missouri and Massachusetts. Diana
.
From: Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Eliot's visit to pre-historic Tombs
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:42:47 -0800
Any thoughts about these particular lines:
................................
Sightless, unless
The eyes reappear
As the perpetual star
Multifoliate rose
Of death's twilight kingdom
..............................
For Thine is the Kingdom
..............................
Here's a clue: Dante.
Cheers,
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: cr mittal
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: Eliot's visit to pre-historic Tombs
The Hollow Men ??? Wow! I never thought of that. Many thanks, Peter.
At your instance, I explored the poem and found, to my great surprise,
that it was, indeed, saturated in primitive lore -- the mindset, the
magical
rites et al. I wish to draw the List's attention to the following lines
in the
poem:
Let me also wear
Such deliberate disguises
Rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves
In a field
Behaving as the wind behaves
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
Is it like this
In death's other kingdom
Waking alone
At the hour when we are
Trembling with tenderness
Lips that would kiss
Form prayers to broken stone.
In this valley of dying stars
In this hollow valley
This broken jaw of our lost kingdoms
In this last of meeting places
We grope together
And avoid speech
Gathered on this beach of the tumid river
Sightless, unless
The eyes reappear
As the perpetual star
Multifoliate rose
Of death's twilight kingdom
Here we go round the prickly pear
Prickly pear prickly pear
Here we go round the prickly pear
At five o'clock in the morning.
Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow
Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow
Life is very long
Between the desire
And the spasm
Between the potency
And the existence
Between the essence
And the descent
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom
It should be interesting in this regard to read the following excerpt
from an article by David Chinitz.
~ CR
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chinitz, David "In the Shadows: Popular Song and Eliot's Construction
of Emotion" Modernism/modernity - Volume 11, Number 3, September
2004, pp. 449-467. The Johns Hopkins University Press.
http://muse.jhu.edu/cgi-bin/access.cgi?uri=/journals/modernism-modernity/v011/11.3chinitz.html
Excerpt:
The "Shadow" that falls in The Hollow Men "Between the emotion / And
the response / . . . Between the desire / And the spasm" thwarts sexual
consummation in a land where "Lips that would kiss / Form prayers to
broken stone."3 Neither emotion nor desire is absent; indeed, the hollow
men "trembl[e] with tenderness" at night. But the Shadow interposes,
and desire is spent in obscure and ineffectual religious rites.
Eliot's poetry is full of such frustrating shadows...
----------------------------
Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Curious that "The Hollow Men" is never referred to on this list.
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: cr mittal
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 3:34 AM
Subject: Re: Eliot's visit to pre-historic Tombs
Many thanks, Peter, for these insightful remarks.
The contemplation of "the original primitive sensibilities" was,
indeed,
a core concern to Eliot.
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