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TSE  September 2006

TSE September 2006

Subject:

Re: TSE-list: Feb 12-20, 1998 (was: What Bible did Eliot use most?)

From:

"Loucks, James" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

T. S. Eliot Discussion forum.

Date:

Sat, 2 Sep 2006 17:38:45 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (219 lines)

I forget how to resign from this list. Can anyone please help?  --  Jim
 
James Loucks, Ph.D.
Ohio State University-Newark
1179 University Dr.
Newark, OH 43055-1797
[log in to unmask] 
740.366.9423
fax 740.366.5047
 

________________________________

From: T. S. Eliot Discussion forum. on behalf of Diana Manister
Sent: Fri 18-Aug-06 3:55 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: TSE-list: Feb 12-20, 1998 (was: What Bible did Eliot use most?)



I'll try to find the source of the information on Eliot and the revision of
the King James Bible. He served on an official committee of the Anglican
Church that met regularly in London, that did produce a complete revision.
Diana
----------------------------------------------------
Rick & Diana,

There was a discussion on the list in Feb of 1998 about a CS Lewis/TSE
collaboration on the Book of Psalms for the New English Bible between
Richard Badenhausen, Jonathan Crowther, the late Pat Sloane, Nathan Camp,
Jim Loucks, and myself that I can reproduce the most pertinate sections
here.  Again, it was only the Psalter that either had any input on it seems
to me.  The SUBJECT line is always "TSE and the New English Bible" (except
the last which was "Lewis & Eliot" by Nathan on Feb 20).

Robert Meyer

********************************************************
Feb 12, 1998

I just finished reading Sherry Simon's wonderful book _Gender
in Translation_ (Routledge, 1996) in which she refers to "Eliot's
collaboration with the New English Bible" (132). This was a new
one for me. Simon provides no footnote and when contacted
claimed that she could not recall the source. I offered that I
hoped she was not thinking of the series of letters written by
Eliot in 1961-2 to the _Times_ and _TLS_ on the N.E.B. Can
anyone help with particulars about this (invented?) collaboration?
I'd be most interested.

Richard Badenhausen

********************************************************
Feb 12, 1998

There is a reference in the biography of C S Lewis "Surprised by Joy"
to TSE and Lewis collaborating on the Psalms. It went some way to
healing their long standing antagonism.

Jonathan Crowther

********************************************************
Feb 13, 1998

I wonder what the collaboration could have consisted of. I don't think TSE
knew Hebrew. Did Lewis? I suppose they could have taken a translation that
they thought sounded poor in English and tried to improve the English. But
even this is risky if one doesn't have the text at hand in the original
language and one doesn't read the original language. I can't imagine TSE
doing this. Though he often pointed out that he wasn't a scholar, neither
did
he do the kind of thing that would have made scholars shudder. ...

I wonder what the output was of the Eliot-Lewis collaboration. Psalms is
such
an angst-ridden book that Eliot might be just the right person. ...

Pat Sloane

********************************************************
Feb 17, 1998

Jonathan Crowther & Pat Sloane,

Last Friday I bought a copy of CSL's "Surprised By Joy" (and also
his "Reflections on the Psalms" for good measure) but I couldn't find
anything about TSE in either book. I did notice in "Surprised by Joy"
he mentions a lot of TSE sources: Dante, Mallory & other Arthurian
works, Shakespeare, Milton, and tons of Wagner so the two of them
could have been great chums but I didn't see any specific reference
to Eliot. Did I miss something?

Robert Meyer

********************************************************
Feb 17, 1998

Regarding the question of the Lewis-Eliot collaboration, I have both a
suggestion and an offer. I know that Lewis carried on a correspondence
with Eliot during the last several years of his life, and that he changed
his stance on Eliot's work significantly during that time. I don't know
where the letters from that correspondence are collected, but they have to
be in one of two places: Bodley, or Wheaton College, Ill. ...

Nathan Camp

********************************************************
Feb 18, 1998

Nathan,

Whatever you can find on TSE-Lewis correspondence would be very welcome to
many on this list. CSL was no fan of TSE early on, and once (in 1926)
hatched plans to hoax him at Criterion by submitting poems that were more or
less parodic. The data I have indicate that TSE was less active than Lewis
in the project on the Psalms, and generally defended traditional phrasings.
TSE disapproved of the New English Bible.

Jim Loucks

********************************************************
Feb 19, 1998

On Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:46:53 EST, Pat wrote:
 >I wonder what the output was of the Eliot-Lewis collaboration. Psalms
 >is such an angst-ridden book that Eliot might be just the right person.

Lewis was silent even when occupied with translating the Psalms into
the new version. As is known he had illustrious colleagues in this
task, including for example TSE.

Lewis' work on the Psalms was done mainly between 1959 and 1962
and consisted not in making a new translation but in revising the old one
as it appears in the BCP. This was undertaken by a committee of seven
and a selection of their work appeared in 1961 and the whole in 1963
as The Revised Psalter........the work that he and TSE did on these
translations of the Scriptures bore a strange resemblance...to
Kipling's late story Proofs of Holy Writ in which BJ finds WS on
exactly the same task....

Jonathan Crowther

********************************************************
Feb 19, 1998

 >Last Friday I bought a copy of CSL's "Surprised By Joy" (and also
 >his "Reflections on the Psalms" for good measure) but I couldn't find
 >anything about TSE in either book. ...Robert Meyer

Sorry it should have been CS Lewis A Biography by R L Green and W
Hooper Souvenir Press 1974. I have moved my desk into the loft and
couldn't be bothered to go downstairs. But at least you read
Surprised by Joy !!

Jonathan Crowther

********************************************************
Feb 12, 1998

Fellow Elioteers,

In regard to the question of collaboration between TSE and C.S. Lewis, I
have been fortunate to encounter a more or less definitive answer. Walter
Hooper, the literary executor of C.S. Lewis, published in 1996 a thick
combination bio/commentary on Lewis entitled C.S. Lewis: A Companion
and Guide. After a bit of digging, I found that there are several direct
references to personal and professional interactions between Lewis and
Eliot. Hooper quotes sparingly from Lewis' letters to TSE, which I would
assume are now in the collection of Lewis materials at the Bodleian Library.

As for the collaboration on the Psalms, both Lewis and Eliot served on the
"Commission to Revise the Psalter," which met for the first time on Jan.
22, 1959. The other members of the Commission, as listed by Hooper, are:
"the Archbishop of York, the Most Rev. F.D. Coggan; the Rt Rev. G.A. Chase
(Bishop of Ripon 1946-59); J. Dykes Bower (Organist of St Paul's); Gerald
H. Knight (Director of the Royal School of Church Music); D. Winton Thomas
(Regius Professor of Hebrew in the University of Cambridge)."

I hope this information is useful to Jim, Richard, and other listmembers
who may be interested.

There are some other small mentions of TSE in Hooper's volume; let me know
if y'all have a further interest in this.

Cheers,

Nathan Camp

********************************************************

  [Original Message]
 > From: Diana Manister <[log in to unmask]>
 > To: <[log in to unmask]>
 > Date: 8/18/2006 6:45:45 AM
 > Subject: Re: What Bible did Eliot use most?
 >
 > Rick, if you can find material on the revision of the King James bible to
 > which TSE contributed you may find your answer. He was a member of the
 > committee of the Anglican Church that produced a new version. Diana
 >
 >
 > From: "Rickard A. Parker" <[log in to unmask]>
 > Reply-To: "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
 > To: [log in to unmask]
 > Subject: What Bible did Eliot use most?
 > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 19:40:11 -0400
 >
 > Does anyone know what English version of the Bible Eliot most
 > likely used and relied on?
 >
 > Did he rely on different versions through his career?
 >
 > What about the TWL era?
 >
 > I suspect the King James version thoughout.  He didn't care for the
 > revised edition of the 50s/60s.
 >
 > Thanks,
 >      Rick Parker

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