An interesting set of comments.
Carrol's observation that the deprivation of liberty IS the punishment
is a very important consideration.
I'm not sure efforts should be made to dull the pain of that deprivation.
I have a connection with a minimum security prison, and even though
it is run on a fairly enlightend philosophy, the prisoners still come out
with their health broken. It is a curious matter.
My comment was motivated by the fact that Moussaui will be in
solitary confinement, 23 hrs a day for the rest of his life.
even if he's fed top food and treated with the greatest respect
by the prison personnel, I can't get my mind around how difficult
that aloneness might be, perhaps because I have, by choice, led a fairly
solitary life. To me there is a limit to aloneness before one drowns in it.
I am reminded of Mersault in L'Etrange (sometimes translated as
The Outsider.). I supose if Mousaui has the mentality of Camus'
myth, Sisyphus, he might survive, but I am doubtful. He's only in his
30s. Of course Eliot got there first with "Each in his prison
thinking of the key...."
Isn't the Unabomber in that same Colorado prison? He was
already nuts when he went in, so maybe he'll survive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Armstrong" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 9:38 AM
Subject: OT: Re: T.S. Eliot to Zacarias Moussaoui
> Well, I don't often agree with Gunnar, but in this case I think he has
> right. While I'm pretty sure that there are some hellish prisons in the
> what makes them so is more often their clientele than their
> administrators. And the great majority of US prisons are middling places
> where people are indeed deprived of their liberty but are not tortured.
> I've spent a fair amount of time in the latter kind, some uncomfortable
> time in the former, though no overnights. (Going in or out, the clanging
> the gate is one of the more powerful sounds I've heard.) Miserable things
> can and do happen in US prisons (and, be honest, in prisons everywhere),
> but the Gestapo and Nazi "detention camps" are a whole different matter.
> seems to me that a US citizen who calls US prisons as bad as Nazi camps
> borders on denying the holocaust. And calling the US a "criminal nation"
> stoops to the same rhetorical confusion.
> This is not a sanction on criticism of the US; but would you feel free
> publicly to condemn a country, in that country, that was as bad as Nazi
> Germany was? Obviously you would not. Some discrimination is needed.
> Ken A.
> At 11:02 AM 5/5/2006, Gunnar Jauch wrote:
> >am 5.5.06 14:31 Uhr schrieb Carrol Cox unter [log in to unmask]:
> > > Only a criminal nation would maintain such prisons. It is a torture
> > > chamber. The Gestapo was no worse.
> > >
> > > Carrol
> >Sorry, Carrol,
> >your statements are silly and any comparison with Nazi terror way beyond
> >The trouble with such false analogies is to belittle Nazi terror and,
> >therefore, unpardonable. I respect for your erudition but your post was a
> >real letdown.
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