'pas cher' could be more directly translated as 'not dear' or better,
'not too dear' in England. Is dear also understood as meaning expensive
in American usage?
fran

-----Original Message-----
From: T. S. Eliot Discussion forum. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Rickard A Parker
Sent: 21 January 2006 01:35
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lune de Miel translation

Dear CR, TR, any other Rs and Will and Carrol too,

I will make an attempt to translate "Lune de Miel" and also discuss it.
It will be a dragged out discussion though as I write slow and type
slower.
Plus I've trying to do some programing enhancements to my TWL site and
I don't want to set the aside longer than I already have.

A few items:

1) I've make a request of an ex-TSE list member to publish his
translation
of Eliot's French poems.

2) After supplying my partial translation I though that I ought to
write that I would probably translate "pas cher" (literally "not
expensive") as "cheap."  Cheap fits the tone of the poem better if not
TSE's written words.  I was more interested in the word play of Supper
and restaurant in that line though.

3) I still will go with "Low Countries" and "Terre Haute" as, even after
reading Smith, I see "Lune de Miel" as mainly a satire.  More later if
I can keep things going.

4) Terr-A- Haute !?!  Tell it to the cops.
    http://www.terrehaute.in.gov/Dept_Police/dpt_d_police.htm

5) Low Countries:

At
http://www.library.jhu.edu/collections/specialcollections/manuscripts/ms
registers/ms220.html
under "Administrative History" not far from the top of the page:

       Historically, the Low Countries included not only the territory
    of the Kingdom of the Netherlands but also what is now Belgium as
    well as parts of Northeastern France and Luxembourg.

       In the 14th and 15th centuries, the Low Countries were controlled
    by the dukes of Burgandy and their successors, the Hapsburgs.  In
    the 16th century, Charles V was ruler of the Netherlands (1506-
    1555) as well as the Holy Roman emperor and king of Spain.
    Charles V formally united the 17 provinces and the duchy of
    Burgandy in the "Burgundian circle" within the Holy Roman Empire.

       In 1579, the northern provinces declared their independence from
    Spain.  The northern provinces came to be known as the United
    Provinces.  The southern provinces including part of what was to
    be known as Belgium remained under the control of Spain.
    
       The division of the Low Countries at the end of the 16th century
    emphasized the religous and economic differences between north
    and south.  The south under Spanish rule became almost
    exclusively Catholic while the northern provinces embraced
    Calvinism.  The northern provinces prospered through trade and
    commerce while the southern provinces suffered from wars and
    Spanish taxes.

6) The HTML markup in various lister's messages is causing my mailer
to blow up when doing replies.  This means that I will have to post
a new message each time I would rather do a reply.  No big deal if
you just read the messages as they come in but if you use your mail
program to display messages in threaded manner then things are going
to get screwed up.

Or maybe I'll just reply to my own posts (or Carrol's, since I know
that he knows the right way of doing things too ;-)

Now onto a translation.  I hope it doesn't take me as long as
"El Desdichado" did.

Regards,
    Rick Parker