LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for TSE Archives


TSE Archives

TSE Archives


TSE@PO.MISSOURI.EDU


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

TSE Home

TSE Home

TSE  September 2005

TSE September 2005

Subject:

Re: morality and Eliot's effect

From:

Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

T. S. Eliot Discussion forum.

Date:

Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:50:44 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (92 lines)

There is a very big difference between supporting morality and defining
what that is.  The differences between conservative and liberal in the
US are NOT between those who care about morality and those who do not: 
thery are differences between two groups who care about morality and
deeply disagree about how to be moral.  

Is it moral to discriminate against gay people?  In Maine we will have a
referendum this fall on whether to repeal a gay rights law. 
Conservatives want to repeal.  Liberals want to retain the gay rights
law.  Does this mean one group cares about morality and the other does
not?

This reiteration of assumptions about the "moral" obscures any serious
discussion.

Eliot has been both condemned and defended on this list for his words
and images about Jews.  That is a moral issue that continues to distress
many because, as Julius argued, Eliot was engaged in a form of
representation that defined.  Julius's argument was nothing so simple
and silly as that Eliot personally hated or said mean things to
Jews--and whether he did or  not is not what anyone is really arguing
about.  So too with gay rights--it is not about whether one affirms or
condemns homosexuality; it is about civil rights.  No one claims that
domestic abusers should lose their civil rights, though that would at
least make more sense.  Many things are bad or wrong that are not
assumed to disqualify you from rights--not even being persistently
revolting and crude in language.
Nancy




>>> [log in to unmask] 09/23/05 2:53 AM >>>
I remember a time from the late 50's up to about the mid-70s when Eliot
was considered the high priest of poetry and poetics. His effect on
people
interested in mysticism was also very strong, but morality? Maybe in the
Church of England, I really couldn't say. I know he was extremely
involved
in all the discussions going on, one way and another, and maybe his
poetic
aura rubbed off on his admirers engaging in the debate. He certainly had
a
lot to say on the subject, and illustrated much of his thinking through 
his plays,
but neither his prose, nor his drama had hit status on the basis of 
morality.
In fact only THE COCKTAIL PARTY had anything like hit status at all,
being
the only play ever to be popular on Broadway and Shaftesbury Ave at the
same
time, and that because of its entertainment value. If he was promoting 
himself
as the high priest of morality, he certainly didn't achieve the status.

I suppose the critical negativity is inevitable. As the great Mexican 
stand off
between left and right in the US shows that, in some quarters, raising 
the subject
of morality in public at all, is considered more revolting than letting 
go a good
juicey fart.

Cheers,
Peter

Ken Armstrong wrote:

> At 07:06 PM 9/21/2005, you wrote:
>
>> At least one can say in Bowra's favor that--together with John 
>> Sparrow, F.R. Leavis, and recently departed David Daiches--he refused

>> to be taken in, and genuflect in front of, Eliot's PR machine,
>
>
>   What baloney, Jacek. Now, I admit  I still haven't pushed myself 
> through all of the Eliot bio's, but I don't remember one single 
> recounting of the "genuflection era." Taken in? Maybe they just 
> weren't bright enough to understand what was in front of them.
>
>  Yrs.,
>  Ken A.
>
>


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.5/110 - Release Date:
9/22/2005

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
March 1996
February 1996
January 1996
December 1995
November 1995

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



PO.MISSOURI.EDU

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager