I apologize for bringing in this subject. I would
only state the obvious if I elaborated on Mohammed and
his relation today with Islam. I only wanted to make
an observation that Christ and Mohammed when seen as
centres of the two Religions could have interesting
differences and similarities as well, an understanding
of which is essential to look at the nature of many
issues today. It could be my personal perception. A
discussion of it here may be out of bounds.
--- William Gray <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I don't know a lot about Islam, but that sounds like
> a fair call -- Mohammed would seem to be the center.
> Right? Is this controversial?
> >>> [log in to unmask] 11/04/04 01:16PM >>>
> 'The center of true Christianity is Christ, not a
> of principles.'
> You could also then justify at a similar conclusion
> that Mohammed is the center of Islam, which is
> to be the major problem in the present issues of
> by many !
> --- William Gray <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > Yes, you're right, George, there is an assumption
> > being made here by Christians -- that IF
> > Christianity is the true accounting of reality,
> > it would best explain the origin of principles
> > as these. Contrary opinion would assert that if
> > Christianity is only A belief, then why are so
> > other religious principles similar? How dare
> > Christianity claim to be the origin? It's the
> > difference between mere similitude and a
> > cause-effect relationship. You either have to
> > believe in an origin of these things, or instead
> > believe that man has come up with everything
> > meaningful that exists (for how could chance
> > meaning?).
> > The death penalty in origin (according to the
> > is a Christian thing (Genesis 9:6).
> > I have no idea where the right to bear arms comes
> > from -- that always seemed to me an element of
> > America that was reacting against Britain (just
> > the third amendment -- why else would this be a
> > priority?). Personally, I've never given
> > support to the right to bear arms, but hey -- it's
> > in the Bill of Rights. Not really a Christian
> > I'm not sure that people call it a Christian
> > principle, and if they do, I guess you're right to
> > call them on the carpet for it.
> > Homosexuality -- a well-documented no-no in the
> > Bible (I Corinthians 6:9, Romans 1:26-27, among
> > other passages). According to Christianity, if God
> > created people as well as marriage, he gets to
> > decide proper bounds for sexuality. Again, it's
> > those who see Christianity as only a choice among
> > many belief systems who see this as a
> > against freedom. I guess it all depends on how you
> > define freedom. Perhaps Thomas Carlyle was right
> > (freedom is being shown the right path and, if
> > necessary, being made to walk in it). In almost
> > every other avenue of life, it makes sense to us
> > that we should look out for others to make sure
> > are operating within appropriate bounds -- for
> > good, not ours (like crisis counseling, drug
> > mental institutions).
> > As I explained to a fellow student at Oxford a few
> > years ago, as annoying as it was to her that
> > would stop her on the street and ask if she were
> > going to heaven or hell, doesn't it make sense
> > if someone truly believed you were going to hell,
> > would be a loving thing for them to let you know
> > about it? In other words, there is a difference
> > between one who is a true believer in Christianity
> > and someone who knows about Christianity -- the
> > difference is in the way they look at the world
> > at the tenets of Christianity itself. Worldviews
> > like a set of glasses. And it's the worst when a
> > person thinks he's not wearing any glasses, that
> > has no worldview.
> > And yes, Ken is right about Tillich. The center of
> > true Christianity is Christ, not a set of
> > principles.
> > Best wishes,
> > Will
> > >>> [log in to unmask] 11/04/04 09:42AM >>>
> > On Thu, Nov 04, 2004 at 09:12:37AM -0500, William
> > Gray wrote:
> > > before. Perhaps you and I would differ in how we
> > react to that. I find it comforting to a degree,
> > since
> > > this nation was founded on Christian principles
> > however, since Christians will always differ a
> > little
> > I take the view, and I think it's supported by the
> > often rabid disagreements between different
> > of
> > Christianity, that there is no such thing as a
> > "Christian principle". What many Christians
> > consider to be
> > principles unique to their faith are in fact
> > humanitarian principles shared by many faiths.
> > as
> > with all such 'principles', they are *merely*
> > principles and should not be taken as matters of
> > dogma. To
> > say nothing of the fact that "Christian
> > regularly seem to have very little to do with
> > anything
> > that's written in the Bible except perhaps in the
> > most tangential manner, and to have been
> > cherrypicked
> > according to people's prejudices. So it is that
> > have a nation founded upon "Christian" values that
> > has
> > a death penalty and a right to bear arms but that
> > gets riled up about homosexuals.
> > --George
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