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MOBIRDS-L  October 2004, Week 4

MOBIRDS-L October 2004, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Forum to discuss collecting

From:

Susan M Gustafson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Susan M Gustafson <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:19:40 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (126 lines)

Bob,
ONE side of the issue was not presented at the fall meeting.  I had
replied to you privately earlier but am now sharing my response with the
rest of this list.  I also find it curious that the requests being made
of ASM (who sponsors this listserve) are coming from a non-member.  As
far as Mark Robbins explaining his justification for collecting in
writing, he indicated to us at the meeting that he will be providing the
information about the hypotheses and the results of the analysis, when
available, in an upcoming article in a future addition of The Bluebird.
Sue Gustafson
President, Audubon Society of Missouri
Bob,
I contacted you after the fall meeting regarding Mark's presentation
(which was very much in line with Edge's philosophy of "let us reason
together"), and now your current comment of  " I would allow collection,
especially from substantial populations, only for well-justified use in
carefully-planned scientific projects" is all the more reason I wish you
could have heard Mark's explanation. I do not want to incorrectly
paraphrase Mark's presentation, but bottom line it was part of on ongoing
carefully-planned scientifc project that is being done at LSU that Mark
has been involved with the various contacts there over the years.  As far
as substantial populations, the thinking was that it was most likely a
Lesser Black-backed Gull.
Yes, I personally have many issues with the subject of collecting, but we
are not going to get the authorities to prevent Mark from collecting
again in our state, as you suggest, as long as he has the relevant
permits and  carries out his work properly under these permits.  He also
spent a lot of time explaining to us what that permitting/collecting
process was.
I therefore do not feel that the ASM leadership has shoved this under the
rug.  If we had ignored it totally, then yes, I would agree with you, but
the fact that we invited and encouraged Mark to sit down and reason with
us together, in a large group setting, was the appropriate way to handle
it.  I'm sorry that you were not able to get your specific concerns
addressed, and I'm sorry that you disagree with how ASM handled it.
Sue Gustafson




On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:41:06 -0500 Robert Fisher <[log in to unmask]>
writes:
> I wonder if Audubon Society of Missouri would be willing to provide
> an on-line forum for discussion of the Smithville Gull incident.
> That way, those who are still interested in the subject could see
> both sides. Those who are tired of it could avoid it.
>
> As the matter now stands, the ASM leadership has allowed only one
> side of the issue to be presented at the Fall Meeting and then
> declared the matter settled. Persons who were not at the meeting are
> expected to accept an abbreviated summary of the presentation of
> that one side. By adding a "no discussion of collection" rule, the
> list owner is censoring all further discussion of the matter within
> our community, unless it is through the back channels of private
> e-mails.
>
> I think it would be helpful if Mark Robbins were to state his
> explanation on the ASM web site so that persons who were not at the
> meeting could have more than a summary of it. From what I have heard
> of it second hand, it won't stand close scrutiny, but it is possible
> I might have a different opinion if it were available first hand. I
> would like an opportunity to present the other side, unless the
> first-hand version persuades me otherwise.
>
> As for the "no discussion of collection rule," the list owner is
> within her rights to impose it, but I still feel that my point of
> view is being censored so long as the issue remains unresolved and
> no other avenue for discussing it is available.  I have received a
> lot of private e-mails supporting my stand. To the extent that they
> agree with me, their point of view is being suppressed also.
>
> I have not recently tried to do any more with the issue on the list
> than to keep it alive. I am not not proposing further discussion of
> it on the list. However, the more I think of it, the less sure I am
> that I want to remain a part of a community that cannot find any way
> to deal openly with an issue of such importance to it.
>
> I hope that ASM will ask Mark Robbins to state his justification for
> collecting the Smithville Gull in writing so that it can be posted
> on the ASM website.  I would like an opportunty to reply. I'll try
> to open my mind as much as possible. If I am persuanded, I'll admit
> it. I would also welcome other discussion, pro and con. I think such
> an open airing of the matter -- but only for those who choose to
> attend it on the web site -- would be constructive.
>
> Bob Fisher
> Independence, Missouri
> [log in to unmask]
>
> __________________________________________________
> *        Audubon Society of Missouri's           *
> *         Wild Bird Discussion Forum             *
> *------------------------------------------------*
> * To unsubscribe send the message                *
> *    SIGNOFF MOBIRDS-L                           *
> * to [log in to unmask]                    *
> * To subscribe send the message                  *
> * SUBSCRIBE MOBIRDS-L your name                  *
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> *------------------------------------------------*
> * To access the list archives from July 2002 on: *
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> *                                                *
> * To access the Audubon Society of Missouri Web  *
> * Site:  http://www.mobirds.org                  *
> ##################################################
>
>

__________________________________________________
*        Audubon Society of Missouri's           *
*         Wild Bird Discussion Forum             *
*------------------------------------------------*
* To unsubscribe send the message                *
*    SIGNOFF MOBIRDS-L                           *
* to [log in to unmask]                    *
* To subscribe send the message                  *
* SUBSCRIBE MOBIRDS-L your name                  *
* to [log in to unmask]                    *
*------------------------------------------------*
* To access the list archives from July 2002 on: *
* http://po.missouri.edu/archives/mobirds-l.html *
*                                                *
* To access the Audubon Society of Missouri Web  *
* Site:  http://www.mobirds.org                  *
##################################################

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