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TSE  October 2004

TSE October 2004

Subject:

Re: A novel?; a reply to Francis ; was , Re: Tarot and Huxley

From:

Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

T. S. Eliot Discussion forum.

Date:

Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:14:42 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (66 lines)

I accept your trope, Francis. It is a useful
probing device, or analog. It is appropriate to use such
Elizabethan analytics in an Eliot discussion. Some
common'taters who seem to think they are "the first that
ever burst", are possessed with the wont to keep everything
literal, or are simply incapable of the use of analogy.
At the same time as I accept your trope, I prefer Eliot's
own, which was the drama. Somewhere in the dim and distant
past I read, perhaps in Williamson, that ELiot warmed very
much to an admirer who saw the dramatic elements at play
in the poem.

Defintion of a poem: a pet with an o stuck in it.

:)
P.


-----Original Message-----
From: Francis Gavin
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: 2004-Oct-26 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: A novel?; a reply to Francis ; was , Re: Tarot and Huxley

I don't think it really matters whether he took it seriously or not --
it
only matters whether the characters in TWL take it seriously. Nor does
it
particularly matter whether the cards in TWL are completely accurate -
no
they aren't.

Only the allusion as metaphor matters, as you previously mentioned. And
in
the novel, (at the very least since Joyce) there is a bounded,
rule-based
universe set about with engines and devices for purposes of interaction
which will, given a set of events plus a voice or set of voices, reveal
the
creator's intentions.

And whether you accept my definition of a novel is immaterial -- what
you
seem to be saying is that The Novel as an art form since the onset of
Modernism is pretty much a mess compared to its late Nineteenth century
expression. What kind of value you weight said mess with is a subject
unto
itself.

The point of my referring to Prufrock and TWL as novels is that they
carry
all of the above elements minus the flesh. Their narrative flow, their
allusions, their conclusions have been cookbooks for modern fictive
prose
since their inception.



on 10/26/04 7:35 AM, Jennifer Formichelli at [log in to unmask] wrote:

> By the way, I said 'reasonably sure'. Who can be? I can be. Eliot did
> not take fortune-telling seriously; everything he has written on the
> subject has so suggested. Can someone show otherwise? I believe
someone
> wrote in to N & Q at some point to show that even the cards in TWL are
> incorrect.

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