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MOBIRDS-L  September 2004, Week 4

MOBIRDS-L September 2004, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Apology

From:

Robert Fisher <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Robert Fisher <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:54:11 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (185 lines)

My comment about the scientists' knowing better was facetious.

Bob Fisher
Independence, Missouri
[log in to unmask]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deb Fortenberry Nichols" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 11:44 AM
Subject: Apology


> I agree with Bob Fisher's comment of: "Bottom line: The scientists know
> better. A valid collector's permit trumps the birding community's protest.
> Those who disagree should be quiet."  My take on his comment is that it is
> facetious. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)
>
> I apologize. Because of my frustration, my comment was much too strong--I
> was out of line by using the descriptor "cowardly."  This whole discussion
> has been quite difficult for many on the listserve. However, for those of
us
> who aren't "in the circle," so to speak, this entire incident has left us
> feeling quite helpless and "out of the loop." Some of us have obligations
> (jobs, children, etc.) and can't travel to see a bird within a short time
> period of the initial sighting (or attend ASM for more insight). This
> incident will always make me wonder if every time someone reports that a
> rarity has suddenly vanished if indeed, it was "taken."
>
> Has anyone on the list been wondering about the true fate of the
Red-footed
> Falcon? Did it really "just leave"?
>
> Deb Nichols
> Hannibal (Marion Co.) MO
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Fisher" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 10:59 AM
> Subject: Re: Accusatory comments
>
>
> > Hi Lynn:
> >
> > I think Deb Fortenberry Nichols' comments to Mr.Silcock go too far for
an
> > on-list post when she accuses the collector of the gull as "cowardly"
for
> > not stepping forward and stating his justification for doing it. Most
> people
> > already knew his identity, but his name has  properly been kept off the
> list
> > to avoid personal attacks and name calling. I understand that he
appeared
> > and answered questions at the ASM fall meeting and apparently satisfied
> > quite a few folks down there that the deed was legit and scientifically
> > justified.
> >
> > Two scientific justifications for collecting the gull have been given:
(1)
> > to aide some Louisiana State University researchers in their study of
> > hybridization between Kelp and Herring Gulls on the Chandeleur Islands
of
> > Louisiana in the Gulf of Mexico, and (2) to make the specimen a part of
> the
> > permanent collection of the Kansas University Museum of Natural History
in
> > Lawrence, KS.  Defenders of the collection also wax eloquent about all
> sorts
> > of wonderful benefits that will accrue to birders. The specimen will be
> used
> > to make better field guides and will "provide valuable information on
body
> > fat, stomach contents, molt, blood parasite levels, etc."  Researchers
> will
> > study the bird in future years at KU. We are also advised that taking
the
> > gull does not matter to us; lots of nuisance gulls are taken at garbage
> > dumps, so why worry about one more? After all, most of us eat meat,
what's
> > so different about the killing of one gull?, etc.
> >
> > The collection of the gull has predictably aroused a strong negative
> > reaction from the birding community, but  there is nothing cowardly
about
> > it. We are assured that the collector had proper federal state and
county
> > park permits. His scientific justifications may or  may not have been
> mixed
> > with other motives, but in any event they are part of the equation.
> >
> > Bottom line: The scientists know better. A valid collector's permit
trumps
> > the birding community's protest. Those who disagree should be quiet.
> >
> > Susan Gustafson, ASM's new President, informs me that, at the ASM
falling
> > meeting,  the collector  "was not opposed to the suggestion that if a
> > similar situation should arise in the future, he could notify us that a
> > particular bird was a candidate for collection."  That's not exactly a
> firm
> > promise that it won't happen again. But at least it shows movement in
the
> > direction of the sensibilities of the birding community.
> >
> > I would like more assurance than that. I think everyone on this list has
a
> > strong interest to know with some certainty  that if we report a rare
bird
> > to the list, some guy from KU will not come into our state and bag it
for
> > his museum. Perhaps that assurance will come. If not, we are not
helpless,
> > but we may have to go off list to get results. Let's wait for an
official
> > account of the ASM meeting before deciding what, if anything, to do
next.
> > Edge Wade has also demonstrated impressive leadership and diplomatic
> skills.
> > Let's give her a chance to negotiate a settlement, if she is willing to
do
> > it.
> >
> > Whatever we do, let's eschew naming and personal accusation on list.
> >
> > Bob Fisher
> > Independence, Missouri
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > *        Audubon Society of Missouri's           *
> > *         Wild Bird Discussion Forum             *
> > *------------------------------------------------*
> > * To unsubscribe send the message                *
> > *    SIGNOFF MOBIRDS-L                           *
> > * to [log in to unmask]                    *
> > * To subscribe send the message                  *
> > * SUBSCRIBE MOBIRDS-L your name                  *
> > * to [log in to unmask]                    *
> > *------------------------------------------------*
> > * To access the list archives from July 2002 on: *
> > * http://po.missouri.edu/archives/mobirds-l.html *
> > *                                                *
> > * To access the Audubon Society of Missouri Web  *
> > * Site:  http://www.mobirds.org                  *
> > ##################################################
>
> __________________________________________________
> *        Audubon Society of Missouri's           *
> *         Wild Bird Discussion Forum             *
> *------------------------------------------------*
> * To unsubscribe send the message                *
> *    SIGNOFF MOBIRDS-L                           *
> * to [log in to unmask]                    *
> * To subscribe send the message                  *
> * SUBSCRIBE MOBIRDS-L your name                  *
> * to [log in to unmask]                    *
> *------------------------------------------------*
> * To access the list archives from July 2002 on: *
> * http://po.missouri.edu/archives/mobirds-l.html *
> *                                                *
> * To access the Audubon Society of Missouri Web  *
> * Site:  http://www.mobirds.org                  *
> ##################################################
>

__________________________________________________
*        Audubon Society of Missouri's           *
*         Wild Bird Discussion Forum             *
*------------------------------------------------*
* To unsubscribe send the message                *
*    SIGNOFF MOBIRDS-L                           *
* to [log in to unmask]                    *
* To subscribe send the message                  *
* SUBSCRIBE MOBIRDS-L your name                  *
* to [log in to unmask]                    *
*------------------------------------------------*
* To access the list archives from July 2002 on: *
* http://po.missouri.edu/archives/mobirds-l.html *
*                                                *
* To access the Audubon Society of Missouri Web  *
* Site:  http://www.mobirds.org                  *
##################################################

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April 2007, Week 1
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December 2006, Week 5
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October 2006, Week 1
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September 2006, Week 2
September 2006, Week 1
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August 2006, Week 3
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July 2006, Week 3
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July 2006, Week 1
June 2006, Week 5
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June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
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May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
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March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
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March 2006, Week 1
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February 2006, Week 1
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September 2005, Week 1
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August 2005, Week 1
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July 2005, Week 3
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July 2005, Week 1
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May 2005, Week 1
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December 2004, Week 5
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May 2004, Week 3
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November 2003, Week 1
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October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
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June 2003, Week 3
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June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
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May 2003, Week 1
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March 2003, Week 3
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March 2003, Week 1
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October 2002, Week 3
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September 2002, Week 1
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