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MOBIRDS-L  July 2004, Week 2

MOBIRDS-L July 2004, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Barn owls in Sesser, Ill.

From:

Stephen Whitworth <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Stephen Whitworth <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 12 Jul 2004 06:03:39 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (729 lines)

Hello Keith:
     I won't accept your apology because I didn't ask for one, and I don't
believe one is necessary. I felt all of your remarks were entirely
appropriate and your concerns entirely legitimate. But I do very much
appreciate your kind words in offering one.
     I also appreciate that my full description of the situation eased your
concerns somewhat, but that doesn't make those concerns any less legitimate.
I'm sure that if I ever have occasion to come across a nesting site of any
kind again, I will be even more conscious of the advisability of sharing
that information with others, and perhaps will even consult with some of the
more experienced and scientifically trained birders I know for their advice
before making any decision.
     I never felt you were implying I was in the bad birder category, at
least as far as being disruptive and inconsiderate of the birds or the
property owners. I also share your concerns about those who behave badly and
will be very upset if any such do anything to disturb the Sesser owls.
     I agree entirely with the rest of your sentiments, and think these
issues are always worth considering and discussing. For my own part, I think
whatever the birders do during their observations of birds probably has a
very minor effect, if any, on the great majority of the birds, both as
individuals and species, but we can't be too careful. Any reminder about
being more careful and discreet is a welcome one. Otherwise, I hope we all
as birders also can focus on the issues that I believe really do have major
effects on birds, such as environmental degradation, loss of habitat and
predation by domestic/feral dogs and cats, etc.
     Thanx again for your thoughtfulness and good sportsmanship, and for
keeping the best interests of the barn owls in mind. They are just too cool
to let anything happen to them. It's always nice when terrific birders such
as yourself turn out to be terrific people, too. Best regards--
--Steve Whitworth, Glen Carbon, Madison County, IL




>From: "warbler" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: "Stephen Whitworth" <[log in to unmask]>
>CC: <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Barn owls in Sesser, Ill.
>Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:14:31 -0500
>
>   Thank you, Steve for your post, your more than kind comments and
>especially for your detailed description of the Sesser Barn Owl event as
>you
>experienced it.  Certainly, you've described a situation in which I must
>agree, does NOT sound harmful to the family of Barn Owls.
>
>   Maybe I jumped the gun a little, by sending out my post and yet, I'm
>certain, many agreed with it as well.  Your explaination, however, to me,
>certainly defends your case and doesn't place you in  a "bad birder"
>category.  Trust me, Steve, NOTHING you did could compare with those
>aforementioned "Horror Stories".  We won't go there.  It would be upsetting
>to you and me and to all of IBET!
>
>   Please accept my apology and I concur with you that we ALL need to keep
>the birding ethics in mind, whether it be posting rare finds, pishing,
>tapes/CD's, clapping, stomping a marsh (I'd forgotten about that
>Bittern...that had to be a LONG time ago!), etc.
>
>   Good birdings and congrats on witnessing a truly remarkable species!  It
>does sound like you had quite an experience!
>
>   All 4 now!
>
>   Keith McMullen
>   O'Fallon, IL
>   [log in to unmask]
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: "Stephen Whitworth" <[log in to unmask]>
>   To: <[log in to unmask]>
>   Cc: <[log in to unmask]>; <[log in to unmask]>
>   Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 4:00 AM
>   Subject: Re: Barn owls in Sesser, Ill.
>
>
>   > To Keith and any other Missouri or Illinois birders concerned about
>this
>   > issue:
>   >      I posted to Mobirds a report from my visit to Sesser, Ill., on
>July
>2,
>   > when I saw four of the barn owls in the nesting family there.
>   >      First, I want to say that I totally respect Keith's opinions re
>this
>   > matter. Everyone knows what a great and dedicated birder he is, and I
>know
>   > he has the interest of the birds foremost in mind.
>   >      I don't mind anyone's criticism of my post. I know Keith wasn't
>trying
>   > to "target" me personally, but again, only thinking of the welfare of
>the
>   > birds. My only reason for responding to Keith's post is to encourage a
>   > healthy dialogue and exchange of viewpoints among Mobirds and IBET
>   > subscribers re this issue, as it comes up fairly often and probably
>touches
>   > all of us birders at one time or another.
>   >      I would just like to point out that the only reason I knew about
>the
>   > location of these barn owls was from two previous postings by Illinois
>   > birders, no need to name names. Because of my interest in trying to
>get
>a
>   > "really good" look at these awesome birds, which previously had eluded
>me or
>   > only shown me their tails as they flew away from me, I questioned the
>two
>   > Illinois birders about the exact location, and they shared the info
>with
>me.
>   >      I think Keith is exactly right when he encourages everyone to
>"think"
>   > before posting such information, and I would like to assure him that I
>did
>   > so. If my experience in seeing the birds had been different, and if
>they
>had
>   > given any indication of being disturbed by my presence, I would never
>have
>   > described their location in my post. Let me give a few details of my
>visit
>   > to illustrate why I came to the conclusion that these birds could be
>   > observed safely by myself and others without disturbing them or
>altering
>   > their behavior in any way.
>   >      Also, I'd just like to mention that the only list I keep is a
>life
>   > list. I don't go around disturbing nesting birds just to add them to a
>year
>   > list or a state list, because I don't keep those, not that I think
>there
>is
>   > anything wrong with others doing so. I don't use tapes or take photos
>or
>   > trespass. In fact, my main reason for posting the info was because I
>met
>   > Curt Johnson, the owner of the building where the barn owls are
>nesting,
>and
>   > he assured me that I wouldn't be disturbing them, and he gave me
>permission
>   > to observe them from his property.
>   >      If you read my original post, you will remember that I didn't see
>the
>   > birds when I first arrived, and I walked around the block. When I
>returned
>   > to the church, Curt, the building owner, had the garage door open to
>his
>   > lawn mower repair business, which is directly below where the owls
>nest.
>I
>   > spoke to him and we had a pleasant conversation. He's a nice guy and
>very
>   > enthusiastic about the owls. I asked his permission to be there, which
>he
>   > gave, and I assured him I didn't want to do anything to disturb the
>birds.
>   > It was chiefly because of my conversation with him that I came to
>believe I
>   > was not doing so and that other visitors would not, either.
>   >      I will certainly defer to Keith's experience and judgment when he
>says
>   > the barn owls are skittish around their nests, considering this was
>the
>   > first barn owl nest I have visited. But I think a description of this
>   > location and some of the circumstances will illustrate why I came to
>believe
>   > the owls were not disturbed by my presence.
>   >      Knowing that barn owls are so rare, and under the impression they
>   > generally are found only in remote and rural areas, the location of
>the
>nest
>   > surprised me. It's in an abandoned building, but right in the middle
>of
>a
>   > residential neighborhood. Curt's lawn mower repair shop is right below
>them,
>   > and the first thing I thought was, doesn't the noise of the lawn mower
>   > engines disturb them? Curt assured me it does not. Also, this area is
>lit by
>   > some street lights and by a light over the garage door to Curt's shop.
>Curt
>   > told me the owls frequently roost on that light. During my visit, Curt
>had
>   > occasion to leave in his pickup truck to run a short errand. He starts
>his
>   > truck probably 25 feet from the hole in the wall and drives directly
>under
>   > and past it on his way in and out. There was no indication this
>disturbed
>   > the owls. It's clear that he and his wife use the area directly under
>the
>   > hole as a driveway and are driving in and out of there at all hours of
>the
>   > day and night. Apparently, this has not deterred the owls from nesting
>there
>   > for three consecutive years now.
>   >      While I was talking to Curt, he heard the owls calling inside the
>hole.
>   > Pretty soon, we saw the first face appear at the hole. This was dusk
>and
>   > rapidly getting dark, so much so that my binos soon weren't of much
>use.
>   > Several times, the owls would peer out, and whether it was because we
>were
>   > there, probably only 20 feet away, they would move back. Then two at a
>time
>   > were looking out. Curt said they were getting ready to fly out of the
>hole,
>   > as they do every night about that time.
>   >      At that point, I was still concerned about the possibility of my
>   > presence disturbing them, so I moved farther out to the other side of
>the
>   > street. I was probably now 50 to 75 feet away from the hole. Shortly
>   > afterward, they began flying out, one at a time, every few minutes,
>and
>   > flying directly into some trees just 25 feet or so from the back of
>the
>   > church.
>   >      Again, I want to stress that I expressed surprise to Curt about
>this
>   > seeming tameness on the part of the owls. He gave me several anecdotes
>about
>   > how people around town watch out for them and report seeing them
>around.
>   > Probably his anecdote that really convinced me the owls weren't too
>   > concerned about humans was when he told me that the town had held its
>picnic
>   > the previous weekend in the park just across the street. He talked
>about
>how
>   > they had all the rides and the lights and the loud music and the kids
>   > screaming and everything in this little park, and I mean this is only
>50
>or
>   > 100 feet away. He said the owls went through their regular routine
>that
>   > night and didn't seem to pay any attention to all the commotion. This
>was
>   > when I really became convinced that people could observe these owls
>quietly
>   > and using common sense without disturbing them.
>   >      And I'll mention one more thing to support that point, which also
>   > occured to me that night. This was July 2, and getting dark, and
>   > firecrackers and other fireworks were going off all over town, some of
>them
>   > quite close. I was sure this would spook the owls, but it apparently
>did
>   > not, as they went ahead with their nightly routine just as Curt said
>they
>   > would.
>   >      From the point that the owls started flying out, Curt had to
>leave,
>and
>   > I moved back to the other side of the street and down somewhat, more
>like 25
>   > to 30 yards away from the nest, and spoke to a woman who was sitting
>on
>a
>   > porch swing outside her house, on the other side of Elm Street from
>the
>   > church. I didn't get her name, but she told me she sits out there and
>   > watches the owls every night. She told me they frequently fly right
>over
>her
>   > head as they fly around the neighborhood. She also offered to show me
>her
>   > photo album of pix she has taken of the owls. As it turned out, it
>started
>   > to rain at that point, and I decided to call it a night and leave, but
>I
>   > have to assume that she was able to photograph them on at least one
>occasion
>   > without disturbing them.
>   >      I never used a flashlight or attempted to photograph the birds.
>   >      I would guess it's possible that the birds have become accustomed
>to
>   > the people in the neighborhood. Maybe it was because I was standing
>with
>   > Curt, and later with his neighbor across the street, that my presence
>didn't
>   > seem to disturb them. But everything I saw there led me to the
>conclusion
>   > that these particular birds were accustomed to being observed by
>humans
>at
>   > very close range, were accustomed to the noises and commotion of
>everydown
>   > town life, small-town traffic going right by within 25 feet of their
>nest
>   > hole, etc.
>   >      So re the issue of "thinking" before sharing info about the
>location of
>   > these birds, I took all of this into account and concluded that it was
>   > extremely unlikely that any of the birders I know would disturb these
>birds
>   > in any way by observing them discreetly from the rear of the church or
>   > across the street. From everything I saw, I could have set off a
>firecracker
>   > directly below the nest, and it wouldn't have bothered them. Of
>course,
>I
>   > never would have done something like that, but there certainly were
>   > firecrackers and bottle rockets going off within a block or two of the
>nest,
>   > and it seemed to bother the owls not one bit.
>   >      I'd like to assure Keith that if I had seen these birds in any
>kind
>of
>   > rural or remote location that indicated they were "skittish" about the
>   > presence of humans; if any local resident had warned me that they were
>shy
>   > or had asked me not to get too close; or even if I had seen the birds
>react
>   > with any kind of apprehension or fear to a vehicle passing by 10 feet
>below
>   > their nest or a firecracker going off 50 yards away; then I most
>certainly
>   > would have "thought twice" about posting their location and probably
>would
>   > not have done so.
>   >      But in fact, the opposite was true in every respect. And in fact,
>the
>   > owner of the property gave me carte blanche to visit any time or bring
>a
>   > friend. He told me the town police even are aware of the owls and
>watch
>out
>   > for them, and if someone is back there trying to see them, and the
>police
>   > stop and ask what they're doing, all they have to say is that Curt
>gave
>them
>   > permission to watch for the barn owls, and they have no problem with
>it.
>In
>   > fact, the entire impression I got was that these owls are practically
>the
>   > town pets. As Curt said, "If anybody tried messing with them, the
>neighbors
>   > and the police would be here in no time. Everybody here watches out
>for
>   > them."
>   >      OK, the defense rests. For my closing statement, I'd like to
>thank
>   > Keith for bringing his concerns to everyone's attention, especially
>mine. I
>   > couldn't agree with him more that NOT EVERY bird can be seen or
>shared,
>and
>   > that some information DOES NOT need to be shared. If anyone has a
>right
>to
>   > be concerned and protective about these birds, or to be the "birder
>police,"
>   > then Keith does. And finally, I completely agree with him that any
>birder
>   > who knows the location of a nest occupied by a rare species that might
>be
>   > disturbed by human activity in the vicinity should definitely THINK
>before
>   > they SPEAK.
>   >      However, I will respectfully disagree with him when he says it is
>a
>   > "shame" that the secret of this Sesser barn owl location is now out of
>the
>   > bag. I don't believe I acted irresponsibly or did anything to be
>ashamed
>of.
>   > I hope my explanation has shown that I did ask questions of the people
>who
>   > live with these birds literally in their back yards, that they assured
>me
>   > that normal, common-sense birding activity does not disturb these
>birds,
>   > that I was invited to visit at any time and bring other birders, and
>that
>   > the property owners welcome visitors and are more than delighted to
>show
>the
>   > owls to them. I want to assure Keith that I DID THINK about the
>advisability
>   > of posting this info and concluded based on my experiences there that
>it
>   > would DO NO HARM to SPEAK about what I saw.
>   > It even occurred to me that the Mobirds administrator might make the
>   > decision that this info should not be made public, and if the Mobirds
>   > administrator had chosen not to post the report, I would have deferred
>to
>   > their judgment.
>   >      BTW, Curt Johnson also told me that state conservation people
>were
>   > aware of the nest and had visited it. I asked him whether any of the
>birds
>   > ever had been banded, and he said no. Obviously, barn owls have nested
>in
>   > this location for three straight years. Without banding, I guess
>there's
>no
>   > way to know for certain whether it's the same pair returning each
>year,
>but
>   > I would suspect it is. They apparently have successfully raised
>multiple
>   > chicks in this location each year. May I respectfully suggest that
>these
>   > birds seem pretty well-established in this location, where human
>activity is
>   > all around them? I honestly don't believe that I did anything to
>disturb
>   > them in any way, and I don't know any birder that I have met in person
>or
>   > through Mobirds or IBET who would do so deliberately. I guess I've
>heard
>the
>   > "horror stories," too, but never actually seen a birder do something
>like
>   > that.
>   >      And after all, isn't a large part of the reason why we are
>birders
>that
>   > we want to share the love and knowledge of birds with others? I saw
>nothing
>   > but positives in the Sesser situation. The townspeople who might
>otherwise
>   > not know a house sparrow from a painted bunting probably have learned
>   > something about barn owls from having them around town. Curt's wife is
>the
>   > town librarian, and he is on the fire department, and as I mentioned,
>even
>   > the police officers in town are aware of them. These are people of
>influence
>   > in that community, and I think that the interest shown by birders --
>and
>   > yes, the visits that birders make and the money they often bring,
>stopping
>   > to buy gas or a soft drink, perhaps -- reinforces to those community
>leaders
>   > that these birds are more than just wonderful creatures of Nature,
>they
>also
>   > can be an economic and social asset. That just gives them more reason
>to
>be
>   > protective of the birds and to educate others about them, and isn't
>that
>   > really what it's all about? Just to stretch the point a little, I
>visited
>   > Grayling, Mich., in May and was able to view the Kirtland's warbler on
>its
>   > breeding grounds there. The trip was supervised, everyone behaved and
>was
>   > rewarded with a thrilling birding experience, and the town's economy
>was
>   > stimulated, as we birders stayed at the hotel and bought gas and
>meals,
>etc.
>   > There's no reason why the barn owls of Sesser, on a smaller scale, of
>   > course, can't be a similar win-win situation.
>   >      I guess only the future will show whether any damage has been
>done.
>I'm
>   > willing to bet there has been no harm done. I'm willing to bet no
>visiting
>   > birder is going to disturb these birds in any way. I'm willing to bet
>barn
>   > owls will nest in this spot next year. But even if they don't, how
>could
>it
>   > be proved that an increase in the number of birders observing them was
>the
>   > cause? Perhaps it's natural for a nesting pair of barn owls to change
>nest
>   > locations every few years. Perhaps this nesting pair will be wintering
>   > somewhere this year and be attacked by a great horned owl and be
>killed.
>If
>   > they don't return next year, how would we know it had anything to do
>with
>   > the number of birders observing them? I'm afraid all we would be able
>to
>do
>   > would be to speculate.
>   >      So to conclude, I don't believe I need to apologize for sharing
>this
>   > info with other birders. If I'm wrong, and it does turn out to be the
>case
>   > that some "I've got the right" birder is lured to Sesser by my post,
>and
>   > this rogue birder puts a ladder against the wall and sticks a camera
>in
>the
>   > hole and takes flash pix and scares the birds outta their wits...
>well,
>   > first of all I'd try to find that rogue birder and kick their butt...
>then I
>   > will gladly submit my own butt for a collective kicking by the rest of
>the
>   > good and careful birders. Seriously, if something happens to these
>Sesser
>   > owls, and I have any reason to believe it was because someone went
>there
>   > based on my post, I will be extremely depressed and probably never
>post
>any
>   > sighting again. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed that everything is
>gonna
>   > be fine.
>   >      Well, I guess I've done my share of "venting" now, too, haven't
>I?
>But
>   > let's face it, we could have this debate about practically any birding
>   > activity. Certainly, I've seen controversy over pishing and using
>tapes.
>   > Ethics are always somewhat nebulous, and pure cause-and-effect
>relationships
>   > are so hard to identify. How do we know that we aren't disturbing the
>birds,
>   > changing their behavior, possibly affecting their reproductive
>activities,
>   > any time we walk through the woods or around the edge of a wetlands?
>We
>all
>   > flock to the migrant traps during spring migration to see migrating
>   > warblers. The birds are there to feed and rest. Isn't it just possible
>that
>   > by our birding activities each May in TGP or Forest Park that we are
>   > interfering with at least a few migrants, disturbing them as they try
>to
>   > feed or find mates? Isn't it possible we are preventing maybe one bird
>in
>   > 1,000 from reproducing that year because we interrupted a meal it
>   > desperately needed to replenish its energy when we stepped a little
>closer
>   > to get that good look at it? And maybe that one in 1,000, over the
>course of
>   > some years, begins to make a difference in that species' stability,
>perhaps
>   > even contributes to its decline.
>   >      And Keith, I'm not "targeting" you, but do you know how I saw my
>first
>   > American bittern? I was at the Sauget marsh, and you and Connie Alwood
>put
>   > on wading boots and waded in there, and the bittern flushed. I got my
>thrill
>   > and my life bird, and I appreciated it. I don't believe that affected
>the
>   > bird's survival or reproductive success, but we have to admit, don't
>we,
>   > that there's some possibility it might have done exactly that? My only
>point
>   > in bringing that up is that we as birders should always THINK about
>what
>   > we're doing before we ACT, much less before we speak. I'm sure you had
>good
>   > reason, based on your extensive birding experience, to believe that
>flushing
>   > that bittern was NOT going to harm it in any way.
>   >      All I'm asking now is the benefit of the doubt -- while certainly
>not
>   > claiming to have anywhere near your expertise and experience as a
>birder,
>   > because I know I'm a rank amateur and have no scientific training --
>that I
>   > also felt I had good reason, based on my experience in Sesser on the
>night
>   > of July 2, to believe that providing info on the barn owls' location
>to
>   > other responsible birders was NOT going to harm them. And that I most
>   > certainly DID THINK about it before making my decision to SPEAK. If my
>   > decision was a poor one, nobody will regret it more than I will, and I
>will
>   > have learned a bitter lesson. Let's hope for the birds' sake, not
>mine,
>that
>   > I didn't make a mistake.
>   >      Other than that, all I can do is echo everything else Keith said
>in
>his
>   > conclusion. For those of you who read my post and want to go see the
>barn
>   > owls, PLEASE be considerate.  NO recordings, NO rocks, no flashlights
>in
>the
>   > middle of the night, etc.  Be considerate of the birds AND of the
>people
>who
>   > live there! I think we all can agree on that.
>   >     Thanks for listening,
>   >
>   >     --Steve Whitworth, Glen Carbon, Madison County, IL
>   >
>   >
>   > Hi Gang:
>   > >
>   > >Sorry to have to "vent" or "spout off" on this topic but I believe
>   > something
>   > >MUST be said.
>   > >
>   > >By now, I'm assuming, MOST of IBET and MOBIRDS knows about a nesting
>pair
>   > of
>   > >BARN OWLS in Southern Illinois, in Franklin County near Rend Lake.
>Yes,
>   > I'm
>   > >speaking of the Sesser, IL location.
>   > >
>   > >Anyhow, the birds have been quietly nesting for 3 years now!  In
>fact,
>   > >fellow Corps of Engineers' employees of mine at Rend Lake called me
>about
>   > it
>   > >3 years ago!  Seems as 1 of the young birds had fallen out of the
>nest.
>   > My
>   > >pals at Rend Lake rescued the little guy and placed him back in the
>nest.
>   > >
>   > >I'll get right to the point!  We, birders like to have life birds and
>year
>   > >birds and county birds and day birds and list after list after list!
>I'm
>   > >just as guilty as the next guy!  Ask my closest pals and they'll tell
>you
>   > >how "anal" I may seem with all of my lists that I can enter on my
>Palm
>   > Pilot
>   > >and transfer to Avisys, etc.
>   > >
>   > >However, some species are vulnerable to disturbance by even the most
>   > careful
>   > >of birders.  BARN OWL is one of those species that tolerates man, but
>is
>   > >very skiddish around its nest locations and really shouldn't be
>bothered
>   > if
>   > >one can help it!   In fact, some of us have known about nesting Barn
>Owls
>   > in
>   > >S. IL for over 20 years and most of us are "sworn to secrecy" to NOT
>tell
>   > >everyone about them!  The birds are just too leery of visitors!
>   > >
>   > >I know a few good birders asked about the Sesser location.  I know
>info
>   > was
>   > >given out with the assumption this info would NOT be shared with the
>   > entire
>   > >world.  I'm certain that trust was NOT violated.  However, from the
>   > posting
>   > >on MOBIRDS, NOW the entire world that wants to know the location,
>DOES
>now
>   > >know the location!  This is NO longer a secret!
>   > >
>   > >I really hated to see this post on MOBIRDS.  Certainly, not every
>Missouri
>   > >birder will venture to the Rend Lake area to capture a BARN OWL for
>   > his/her
>   > >life list or year list or whatever.  But, Illinois birders have "way
>too
>   > >much info" now, and I can only hope that from now on, ALL of us are
>more
>   > >careful when "distributing" locations of nesting species to each
>other.
>   > I'm
>   > >certain that ALL of us have the best intentions of not disturbing the
>bird
>   > >and getting the bird and leaving.
>   > >
>   > >However, I know of MANY horror stories where overzealous birders with
>the
>   > >"I've got a right to see that bird" attitude, cause more harm than
>they
>   > >realize.  Playing tapes, trespassing, ignoring private property
>   > signs...the
>   > >list goes on.  Some of that means nothing to the "I've got a right"
>type
>   > of
>   > >birder.
>   > >
>   > >Who died and left me in charge to be the "Birding Police?"  NO ONE!
>   > >However, as a serious, veteran Illinois birder (I've been serious
>about
>   > >birding and submitting Field Notes for 25 years!), I feel I have a
>little
>   > >bit of "right"  to "speak out" to the volumes of birders who read
>IBET.
>   > >
>   > >Something HAD to be said.  Sometimes EVERY bird is not possible for
>every
>   > >one of us to see.  Sometimes information does NOT need to be shared.
>   > >
>   > >It's a shame and I do hope, again, that we THINK before we SPEAK.
>   > >
>   > >I apologize to those who may feel I'm targeting them.  I'm not.  This
>   > >message was NOT meant to be a target, but rather a "wake-up" call!
>   > >
>   > >Good birdings & IF you go check on this bird, PLEASE be considerate.
>NO
>   > >recordings, NO rocks, no flashlights in the middle of the night, etc.
>Be
>   > >considerate of the birds AND of the people who live there!
>   > >
>   > >Thanks for listening,
>   > >
>   > >Keith McMullen
>   > >O'Fallon, IL
>   > >[log in to unmask]
>   >
>
>

__________________________________________________
*        Audubon Society of Missouri's           *
*         Wild Bird Discussion Forum             *
*------------------------------------------------*
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*    SIGNOFF MOBIRDS-L                           *
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* SUBSCRIBE MOBIRDS-L your name                  *
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*------------------------------------------------*
* To access the list archives from July 2002 on: *
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*                                                *
* To access the Audubon Society of Missouri Web  *
* Site:  http://www.mobirds.org                  *
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