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MOBIRDS-L  July 2003, Week 2

MOBIRDS-L July 2003, Week 2

Subject:

Re: COMAL and swans

From:

John and Nancy Solodar <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

John and Nancy Solodar <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 9 Jul 2003 19:41:35 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (219 lines)

Confusing the issue even more is what I was told by some of the rangers at
REDA.   According to this line, the Fish and Wildlife Service, when they
were raising baby swans from captive adults, would put neck tags on all the
birds born in captivity, but made no effort to tag birds that did not come
under their control.   When the captive breeding program was stopped a few
years ago (the swans seemed to be making it on their own) the feds switched
to capturing and tagging as many birds as they could, regardless of wild
born or formerly captive born, so that they could better study the
populations of the swans in the wild.    This means that a few years ago you
could be certain that a neck-tagged bird had been captive born.   Now there
is probably a mix of birds out there and unless you can read the tag number
and send it to the feds for identification, you have no idea whether the
bird in question is wild born or captive born.   One can not even be certain
that an untagged bird was wild born as a formerly captive bird might have
lost its tag.

John Solodar

[log in to unmask]


----------
From: "R. Bradley Jacobs" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: COMAL and swans
Date: Wed, Jul 9, 2003, 11:07 AM


The MO Bird Records Committee has tossed this topic around several times
to date. As a result of the discussions going on here on MoBirds-l, the
MBRC will discuss it at the Fall ASM meeting to help resolve the issue.
The way the MBRC dealt with this in the past is a little complicated,
but here goes. You will note that the SR* status on the ASM checklist
indicates that it has been extirpated, and the [WR] is a hypothetical.
So, simple sightings of birds shouldn't be counted, unless you can
establish that the individual has been part of a population (either
restored or natural) for at least 10 years. The only way to do that
would be to read the neck collar and pursue the provenance of that
individual and its population's history. This can be done, but it is
probably not the way to do business anymore. It has become clear that
Trumpeters are likely here to stay and will continue to expand their
populations. In fact, I just received a report today of two red-collared
TSs near Blue Mound. Red collars are Iowa program birds. Several have
been hanging around in the winter, perhaps they decided to stay through
the summer, and perhaps they might even have attempted nesting (purely
speculative on my part.)
So, the MBRC will attempt to resolve the checklist or listing problem
for this species in September.

Brad


>>> Robert Fisher <[log in to unmask]> 07/08/03 10:02PM >>>
Trumpeter Swan is on the Missouri Checklist, so it's a countable
species in
this state. Alas! It may be necessary to hold your nose while you do
it,
because most of the Trumpeter Swans that we see here have not been wild
for
more than one generation, if that. If you see a Trumpeter Swan with a
band
and/or a neck collar, whether to include it in COMAL is arguable either
way.
I don't take COMAL that seriously, so I include them.

Mute Swan is only on the Missouri hypothetical list. Most, if not all,
Mute
Swans that show up in Missouri are of domestic origin and probably
should
not be counted for COMAL, even if birds on the Missouri hypothetical
list
are "countable" for COMAL purposes. (They are not "countable" in
Missouri
for ABA purposes). I did once see an unbanded, free flying bird of the
year
in late fall at Smithville Lake, which could well have strayed from one
of
the feral populations around the Great Lakes. The species is expanding
its
range, to the consternation of many. However, I doubt if the MBRC will
give
it full status in the near future. It is very difficult to prove that a
bird
is from a wild population when there are so many tame ones around. The
strong presumption is that any Mute Swan seen in Missouri is of
domestic
origin.

Bob Fisher
Independence, Missouri
[log in to unmask]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua Uffman" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: COMAL and swans


> I will be the first to plead "guilty" on this.  I have
> been including Trumpeter Swan in my Comal total.  So
> when you see my total number at the end of the month
> you can subtract "1".  I had planned to send my Comal
> total in for December minus the Trumpeter Swan
> .....same would apply when I send this in to the ABA.
> However, when does Trumpeter Swan become countable?
>
>
> Josh Uffman
> St. Louis County, MO
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Charlene and Jim Malone <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> > OK, I'm going to throw out a little something to
> > chew on..... it's been a
> > little "slow" on Mobirds.  ;-)
> >
> > SO, how are all the COMALers handling the following
> > species:
> > Trumpeter and Mute Swans?
> > Counting them, not counting them or what?
> >
> > Just wondering.
> > Now discuss please. :-)
> >
> > Charlene Malone
> > Chesterfield, MO
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > *        Audubon Society of Missouri's           *
> > *         Wild Bird Discussion Forum             *
> > *------------------------------------------------*
> > * To unsubscribe send the message                *
> > *    SIGNOFF MOBIRDS-L                           *
> > * to [log in to unmask]                    *
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> > * SUBSCRIBE MOBIRDS-L your name                  *
> > * to [log in to unmask]                    *
> > *------------------------------------------------*
> > * To access the list archives from July 2002 on: *
> > * http://po.missouri.edu/archives/mobirds-l.html *
> > ##################################################
>
>
> =====
> Joshua Uffman
> St. Louis County, MO
> [log in to unmask]
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> __________________________________________________
> *        Audubon Society of Missouri's           *
> *         Wild Bird Discussion Forum             *
> *------------------------------------------------*
> * To unsubscribe send the message                *
> *    SIGNOFF MOBIRDS-L                           *
> * to [log in to unmask]                    *
> * To subscribe send the message                  *
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> ##################################################
>

__________________________________________________
*        Audubon Society of Missouri's           *
*         Wild Bird Discussion Forum             *
*------------------------------------------------*
* To unsubscribe send the message                *
*    SIGNOFF MOBIRDS-L                           *
* to [log in to unmask]                    *
* To subscribe send the message                  *
* SUBSCRIBE MOBIRDS-L your name                  *
* to [log in to unmask]                    *
*------------------------------------------------*
* To access the list archives from July 2002 on: *
* http://po.missouri.edu/archives/mobirds-l.html *
##################################################

__________________________________________________
*        Audubon Society of Missouri's           *
*         Wild Bird Discussion Forum             *
*------------------------------------------------*
* To unsubscribe send the message                *
*    SIGNOFF MOBIRDS-L                           *
* to [log in to unmask]                    *
* To subscribe send the message                  *
* SUBSCRIBE MOBIRDS-L your name                  *
* to [log in to unmask]                    *
*------------------------------------------------*
* To access the list archives from July 2002 on: *
* http://po.missouri.edu/archives/mobirds-l.html *
##################################################


__________________________________________________
*        Audubon Society of Missouri's           *
*         Wild Bird Discussion Forum             *
*------------------------------------------------*
* To unsubscribe send the message                *
*    SIGNOFF MOBIRDS-L                           *
* to [log in to unmask]                    *
* To subscribe send the message                  *
* SUBSCRIBE MOBIRDS-L your name                  *
* to [log in to unmask]                    *
*------------------------------------------------*
* To access the list archives from July 2002 on: *
* http://po.missouri.edu/archives/mobirds-l.html *
##################################################

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