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TSE  December 2002

TSE December 2002

Subject:

Re: TSE Digest - 17 Dec 2002 to 18 Dec 2002 (#2002-162)

From:

Temur Kobakhidze <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

T. S. Eliot Discussion forum.

Date:

Thu, 19 Dec 2002 06:50:25 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (377 lines)

It seems all of TSE's bridges ARE, in fact, one bridge. All of them in some
way or another allude to Dante, or to Shakespeare's MERCHANT, i.e. both to
Italy and England at a time. Is that a bridge between the cultures in a
broader sense?Consider Rialto in Burbank with a Baedeker. And Venice is
perhaps an earlier version of the Unreal City, later to be substituted by
London. Ponte di Rialto = Ponte dei Sospiri = London Bridge, right?

Cheeers,
TK



On Dec 19 2002, Automatic digest processor wrote:

> There are 10 messages totalling 379 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
>   1. Bridge of Sighs (9)
>   2. Awful poems
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:33:41 -0500
> From:    "Rickard A. Parker" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Bridge of Sighs
>
> I had some recent correspondence from Venice where its flooding was
> mentioned so I dug up an previously unread magazine article to learn
> more.  The article mentioned the Bridge of Sighs and it also mentioned
> the story of how it got its name, i.e., prisoners were moved between
> buildings to their execution or torture.  With the Eliot connection to
> Venice in "Burbank" I thought of the lines in TWL
>     A crowd flowed over London Bridge, so many,
>     I had not thought death had undone so many.
>     Sighs, short and infrequent, were exhaled,
>     And each man fixed his eyes before his feet.
>
>
> So off I went, looking on the internet.  It was a short trip.  The
> picture of the bridge at this webpage pretty much put a stop to me
> thinking that Eliot alluding to it.  The text was interesting too.
>
> http://europeforvisitors.com/venice/articles/bridge_of_sighs.htm
>     Antonio Contino's bridge [Ponte de Sospiri] over the Rio di Palazzo
>     was erected in the year 1600 to connect the Doge's prisons, or
>     Prigioni, with the inquisitor's rooms in the main palace. The name
>     "Bridge of Sighs" was invented in the 19th Century, when Lord Byron
>     helped to popularize the belief that the bridge's name was inspired by
>     the sighs of condemned prisoners as they were led through it to the
>     executioner. (In reality, the days of inquisitions and summary
>     executions were over by the time the bridge was built, and the cells
>     under the palace roof were occupied mostly by small-time criminals.)
>
> I decided to write this up for the list away in case anyone either had
> ideas of their own or knew of other people mentioning this bridge in
> relation to Eliot.
>
> Here are links to a few other photos and paintings of the bridge:
>
>     http://www.photo.net/photo/pcd3610/venice-bridge-of-sighs-84
>     http://www.daap.uc.edu/Gallery/virtual/lasting/2739.html
>     http://www.j-m-w-turner.co.uk/artist/turner-sigh.htm
>
>
> I also looked up the basilica of Saint Apollinaire En Classe Eliot
> used in "Lune de Miel."  Steve had sent in better pictures at one
> time.
>     http://hal.lamar.edu/~LOKENSGALU/slides/apollinaireclasse.JPG
>
>
> Regards,
>     Rick Parker
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 18 Dec 2002 05:57:01 -0800
> From:    Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Bridge of Sighs
>
> Thanks Rickard. One avenue to check to find
> things in Eliot, is through Shakespeare. Did ol'
> Willie use it in THE MERCHANT at all? If he did
> then it might be worth a trot through the CLERK.
>
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rickard A. Parker
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: 12/18/02 5:33 AM
> Subject: Bridge of Sighs
>
> I had some recent correspondence from Venice where its flooding was
> mentioned so I dug up an previously unread magazine article to learn
> more.  The article mentioned the Bridge of Sighs and it also mentioned
> the story of how it got its name, i.e., prisoners were moved between
> buildings to their execution or torture.  With the Eliot connection to
> Venice in "Burbank" I thought of the lines in TWL
>     A crowd flowed over London Bridge, so many,
>     I had not thought death had undone so many.
>     Sighs, short and infrequent, were exhaled,
>     And each man fixed his eyes before his feet.
>
>
> So off I went, looking on the internet.  It was a short trip.  The
> picture of the bridge at this webpage pretty much put a stop to me
> thinking that Eliot alluding to it.  The text was interesting too.
>
> http://europeforvisitors.com/venice/articles/bridge_of_sighs.htm
>     Antonio Contino's bridge [Ponte de Sospiri] over the Rio di Palazzo
>     was erected in the year 1600 to connect the Doge's prisons, or
>     Prigioni, with the inquisitor's rooms in the main palace. The name
>     "Bridge of Sighs" was invented in the 19th Century, when Lord Byron
>     helped to popularize the belief that the bridge's name was inspired
> by
>     the sighs of condemned prisoners as they were led through it to the
>     executioner. (In reality, the days of inquisitions and summary
>     executions were over by the time the bridge was built, and the cells
>     under the palace roof were occupied mostly by small-time criminals.)
>
> I decided to write this up for the list away in case anyone either had
> ideas of their own or knew of other people mentioning this bridge in
> relation to Eliot.
>
> Here are links to a few other photos and paintings of the bridge:
>
>     http://www.photo.net/photo/pcd3610/venice-bridge-of-sighs-84
>     http://www.daap.uc.edu/Gallery/virtual/lasting/2739.html
>     http://www.j-m-w-turner.co.uk/artist/turner-sigh.htm
>
>
> I also looked up the basilica of Saint Apollinaire En Classe Eliot
> used in "Lune de Miel."  Steve had sent in better pictures at one
> time.
>     http://hal.lamar.edu/~LOKENSGALU/slides/apollinaireclasse.JPG
>
>
> Regards,
>     Rick Parker
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:36:27 -0500
> From:    Marcia Karp <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Bridge of Sighs
>
> We can't discuss the Bridge of Sighs without hearing from Thomas Hood's
> poem. The she has just jumped.
>
>     Make no deep scrutiny
>     Into her mutiny
>     Rash and undutiful:
>     Past all dishonour,
>     Death has left on her
>     Only the beautiful.
>
>     Still, for all slips of hers,
>     One of Eve's family
>     Wipe those poor lips of hers
>     Oozing so clammily. [The Bridge of Sighs, 21-30.]
>
> It may be the most awful and utterly delightful poem in English. EAPope
> has written criticism of the poem that matches it in being bizarre and
> pleasing.
>
> Marcia
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 18 Dec 2002 16:57:20 +0100
> From:    Sara Trevisan <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Bridge of Sighs
>
> Messaggio in formato MIME composto da pił parti.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C2A6B6.87C21F20
> Content-Type: text/plain;
>         charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Hey Rickard --=20
>
> No need to search the whole world wide web about Venice! Next time you =
> need some info, just try and ask me first. I live one hour far from =
> Venice and I've been there a thousand times, so...
>
> I cannot help you with Eliot, though...<smile>
> Sara --
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C2A6B6.87C21F20
> Content-Type: text/html;
>         charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV align=3Djustify><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hey Rickard --=20
> </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
> <DIV align=3Djustify><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial =
> size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV align=3Djustify><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>No need to =
> search the whole=20
> world wide web about Venice! Next time you need some info, just =
> try&nbsp;and ask=20
> me first. I live one hour far from Venice and I've been there a thousand =
> times,=20
> so...</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
> <DIV align=3Djustify><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial =
> size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV align=3Djustify><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I cannot help =
> you with Eliot,=20
> though...&lt;smile&gt;</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
> <DIV align=3Djustify><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sara=20
> --</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C2A6B6.87C21F20--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:02:26 -0500
> From:    Marcia Karp <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Bridge of Sighs
>
> Marcia Karp wrote:
>
> > EAPope
> > has written criticism of the poem that matches it in being bizarre and
> > pleasing.
> >
> >
> Make that EAPoe.
>
> M.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 18 Dec 2002 12:30:13 -0500
> From:    "Rickard A. Parker" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Bridge of Sighs
>
> Marcia Karp wrote:
> >
> > We can't discuss the Bridge of Sighs without hearing from Thomas Hood's
> > poem.
>
> The Bridge of Sighs
> Thomas Hood (1798-1845)
> http://www.bartleby.com/101/654.html
>
> I had this URL but withheld it because I figured that I'd get
> clobbered for its awfulness.  I especially thought that you'll be the
> first to hit me for it Marcia.  I'm still hurting from your getting me
> for a previous link to Lamb at Bartleby (sigh, :-)
>
> Regards,
>     Rick Parker
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 18 Dec 2002 12:01:30 -0600
> From:    Carrol Cox <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Bridge of Sighs
>
> Marcia Karp wrote:
> >
> >It may be the most awful and utterly delightful poem in English. EAPope
> > has written criticism of the poem that matches it in being bizarre and
> > pleasing.
> >
>
> I think I once came across a discussion of the difference between
> "awful" poems which one remembers and ordinary bad verse. If no such
> essay exists, it ought to.
>
> I forget both author and title of my favorite _awful_ poem. It's the
> pre-ww1 poem with the refrain, "Play up, play up, and play the game,"
> and the line "Red with the blood of a broken square." It was one of the
> most popular poems in England until it drowned on the Somme.
>
> Carrol
>
> > Marcia
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 18 Dec 2002 13:27:27 -0500
> From:    "Rickard A. Parker" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Awful poems
>
> Carrol Cox wrote:
> >
> > I forget both author and title of my favorite _awful_ poem. It's the
> > pre-ww1 poem with the refrain, "Play up, play up, and play the game,"
> > and the line "Red with the blood of a broken square." It was one of the
> > most popular poems in England until it drowned on the Somme.
>
>
> Vitai Lampada
> by Sir Henry Newbolt
>
> http://www.zeitcom.com/majgen/099vitlam.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:03:47 -0500
> From:    Marcia Karp <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Bridge of Sighs
>
> Dear Rick,
>     As I recall, it wasn't the link to Lamb that was the issue, but the
> characterization of it as a book of synopses.  Baaaaaaaaat, your recall
> maaaaaaay be different.
>
>     Carroll put it well in distinguishing "between 'awful' poems which
> one remembers and ordinary bad verse."  It's not too late to hint that
> you'd like a gift of _The Stuffed Owl: An anthology of Bad Verse_,
> edited by D.B. Wyndham Lewis and Charles Lee, cartoons by Max Beerbohm.
>
> Marcia
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:43:10 -0600
> From:    Carrol Cox <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Bridge of Sighs
>
> Marcia Karp wrote:
> > [clip]
> >     Carrol put it well in distinguishing "between 'awful' poems which
> > one remembers and ordinary bad verse."  It's not too late to hint that
> > you'd like a gift of _The Stuffed Owl: An anthology of Bad Verse_,
> > edited by D.B. Wyndham Lewis and Charles Lee, cartoons by Max Beerbohm.
>
> The Intro to that may be what I was vaguely remembering. I've owned it
> for many years and it is indeed a delight. If it's still in print it's
> worth buying.
>
> A taste of it:
>
>         The two divinest things that man has got,
>         A lovely woman in a rural spot.
>                         Leigh Hunt
> (And parodied by Patmore:
>
>         The two divinest things this world can grab,
>         A handsome woman in a hansom cab.)
>
>         So past the strong heroic soul away,
>         And when they buried him, the little port
>         Had seldom seen a costlier funeral.
>                         Tennyson, Enoch Arden
>
>         Entrapt inside a submarine,
>         With death approaching on the scene,
>         The crew compose their minds to dice,
>         More for the pleasure than the vice.
>                 Congressman H.C. Canfield, Elegy on
>                    the Loss of U.S. Submarine S4.
>
> Carrol
>
> >
> > Marcia
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of TSE Digest - 17 Dec 2002 to 18 Dec 2002 (#2002-162)
> **********************************************************
>

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