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TSE  May 2002

TSE May 2002

Subject:

Re: OT: Maine

From:

"Nancy Gish" <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 12 May 2002 17:42:48 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (204 lines)

The most common places would be the gorgeous coast, especially in the 
southern part around Two Lights state park and in the north in Acadia.  But 
there are also beautiful inland places.  If you belong to AAA, they would 
have lists of the various kinds of sites.  But the coast is not to be missed, 
and it does look like all the stunning pictures of rocks and lighthouses and 
lobster pots and bouys.  Read "Marina"; that is Casco Bay.  Also, you can 
take ferry rides out to all the islands in Casco Bay very cheaply and it is 
also beautiful.  And the lobster is cheap.
Nancy



Date sent:      	Sun, 12 May 2002 12:42:37 -0700
Send reply to:  	[log in to unmask]
From:           	"erwin welsch" <[log in to unmask]>
To:             	<[log in to unmask]>
Subject:        	Re: OT: Maine

Since we are going OT anyway, my wife is planning to visit the lovely
state of Maine this summer with a couple of friends to do a walking tour. 
Any suggestions from others familiar with the area? (We're in California.)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nancy Gish" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: OT: responding to prejudice


> I feel the need to repeat that Kate Troy's notions of Maine are
> extremely inaccurate and that having one friend in a state does not make
> one or
one's
> friend representative.
> Nancy
>
>
> Date sent:      Sun, 12 May 2002 14:43:49 -0400
> Send reply to:  [log in to unmask]
> From:           Kristina Morris Baumli <[log in to unmask]>
> To:             [log in to unmask] Subject:        Re: OT: responding
> to prejudice
>
> The "offensive views" proffered were these:
>
> Sorry to disagree with you, Nancy, but after 911, most people I know, in
> fact all people I know, hate and distrust Arabs.  My best friend, Amy,
> lives in Maine, and she and others in her town do not have any good
> feelings toward Arabs (not that there are many there, expect the ones
> who slip through the Canadian border), so I don't know where in Maine
> you live in, but it must be an unusual area.
>
> My initial (and retracted) reaction was inappropriate; you are citing my
> mea culpa.
>
> My source for the 95% isextrapolated from the public source:
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49338-2002May7.html
>
> which was part of a section discussing the payola scandal (radio
> stations are being compensated by Fox to run O'Reilly, rather than
> paying.
>
> linked from the conservative/libertarian website: www.drudgereport.com
>
> My source for the 50% was a party-sponsored  Zogby poll that was
> circulated among Democrats-- I believe it was also posted on ABC
> news, but I'm afraid that I lack the cite.
>
> To clarify my position: I never reductively stated conservative or ( for
> that matter liberal) views are in themselves "offensive." However, I do
> think that reductive, racist comments like Ms. Troy's are quite likely
> to be found on talk radio shows, which have a strong reputation for
> being tendentious.
>
> (the term" feminazi" comes to mind.)  I can't imagine NPR on the
> left, or George Will on the right saying anything so jejeune, so
> sophomoric, so reductive.
>
> As far as my classroom free speech query goes-- after you have
> finished retching-- perhaps you could advise me how you would deal in a
> classroom  (my classes often include Arabs and other Muslims...) if a
> student made the above-cited statement?  It would test my abilities to
> allow open discourse-- fortunately, although I've had lots of arguments
> in my classes< I've never had to deal with something like that.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>From: Michelle Hadden <[log in to unmask]>
> >>Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
> >>To: [log in to unmask]
> >>Subject: Re: OT:  responding to prejudice
> >>Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 09:12:39 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >i apologize for having to use somebody's reply to a reply to respond to
> >this, but the initial post escaped me. i also apologize for a 100% OT
> >diatribe, but this pissed me off proper.
> >
> ><snipped part about "efficacy of ignoring offfensive views">
> >
> >>It's of interest, (at least to me) that 50 percent of Americans get at
> >>least part of their news from talk radio-- and 95 percent of talk
> >>radio hosts ascribe to views that  are categorized as conservative to
> >>extremely conservative.Rush Limbaugh, Ollie North, Bill (payola)
> >>O'Reilly are taking over the American conversation.... Thus,
> >>unfortunately, the views "so rudely forced" onto this list are what a
> >>large population hears every day..... thus, even--especially?--when
> >>they intrude in this venue,  it seems important to challenge these
> >>unfortunate ideas.
> >
> >in theory, the theory works out well enough, but practice is less
> >than perfect. i believe whomever authored this post endeavored to
> >call "views that are categorized as extremely conservative" as
> >"offensive." if this is not the case, please correct me, but it
> >seems to me that "these unfortunate views" are directly linked to
> >those expressed by, eg, talk radio hosts like Limbaugh, North and
> >more recently, O'Reilly.
> >
> >pardon?
> >
> >conservative opinions are automatically offensive?
> >conservative opinions are automatically prejudiced?
> >who died and left you big brother in charge?
> >
> >i consider myself something of an inveterate fence-straddler, one of
> >those exasperating centrists that usually flips a coin before
> >elections, but it really ever-so pisses the jumping jesus on a pogo
> >stick out of me when tripe like this gets proclaimed with unabashed
> >fervor. if 50% of americans (according to whom?) make an active choice
> >of picking up their news from talk radio, how can they find it to be
> >"offensive"? wouldn't they be able to escape "these unfortunate views"
> >with a flick of a button? wouldn't they have hundreds of other
> >different media outlets to lend their ears/eyes to?
> >
> >"95% of radio hosts ascribe to views that are categorized as
> >conservative to extremely conservative"--is this a real stat or an
> >apocryphal hyperbole? if the former, could you reference it, please?
> >could you specify who exactly categorizes these radio hosts as
> >conservative to extremely conservative, and according to what
> >yardstick? if the latter, here's a similar hyperbole: "flaming liberals
> >enjoy clubbing people over the head with bogus percentages pulled out
> >of their collective pinko ass."
> >
> >>  > I've never had a student like Kate in my classes. I've taught in
> >>public and private universities and underprivileged secondary
> >>schools) I take pride in allowing my students to voice their
> >>opinions openly, to disagree with me . I don't try to change their
> >>minds-- I try to teach them to argue.
> >
> >pardon me while i evacuate myself to retch in a corner.
> >
> >after succinctly relegating any and all sort of supposedly
> >conservative talk radio to the realm of "unfortunate views" you have
> >the gall to tag on a pathetic disclaimer of this sort? how does your
> >encouragement to voice one's opinions pan out? do you by any chance
> >accuse 50% of your classroom of perorating "offensive views"? or maybe
> >you affect a superior smile (the perennial favorite here at berkeley)
> >and subtly imply that the "unfortunate views" are the result of
> >youthful ignorance?
> >
> >on that note, how can any opinion be offensive is it because it
> >differs in stance from your own? if that is the case, maybe your own
> >opinions are equally offensive to me and maybe 50% of americans who
> >leave their dial alone when one of these dreaded "conservative to
> >extremely conservative" talk show hosts comes on.
> >
> >it irritates me to no end that a discussion prompted by the
> >assassination of a dutch right-winger somehow spiraled into what
> >seems to be a free-for-all mauling of conservative thinking. talk
> >about prejudice. for what it's worth, i'm equally repelled by
> >excesses to either side of the political spectrum, but this instance
> >seems particularly repugnant because there seems to be an underlying
> >trend of justification for this murder as the stifle of "offensive
> >views"--a parallel to the insane fervor europe's entire media to deny
> >the dubious character of lepen a chance to articulate anything.
> >
> >and if that's offensive, your being offended is offensive to me.
> >
> >
> >/end_harm
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> >http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>

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